Machining Rotors under warranty

[lovemotors]

We have not replaced any brake pads on the GMT 800'S yet either. I had an A.V.M. warranty review a couple of days ago and my A.V.M stated that if we do a rotor turn under warranty then the customer must pay for pad replacement even if they are dished from the out of round rotor. Warranty is getting tougher.....

[warr_wiz]

I agree GM has aparently come through on the brake pad durability issue. We have yet to replace a brake pad on GMT800. Now that pad life is more reasonable, it makes it a little easier to justify the $100+ price tag on brake pads. (ie: Grand Am pads)

[eric the red]

What is the acceptable standard for run out on the rotors? This must be written somewhere. When this is exceeded, the rotors must be turned/replaced. Friction materials are known by all to be maintenance/wear items that are not warranted except for obvious reasons. The customer pays for maintenance items, the factory pays for all else while the vehicle is in basic warranty.

[gman]

This is great! Here I am reading what appears to be a long string on brake pulsation and it appears that somebody hit a nerve!!

On the pulsation issue. GM makes it as clear as mud, but our general policy is to handle pulsation under warranty if pad replacement is not a part of the repair (over 12K) If pads are replaced, and the owner is upset, we often provide the resurfacing at no charge. (do not have to give away that many)
We do make sure that the owner knows that GM is not covering the charges. All to lock this customer in to us as a service provider.

Now a word on unreasonable expectations...
After 20+ years in the service and parts end of our business, I wake up every morning thinking I've seen it all and invariably go to sleep every night having learned something new. The changes we have seen during this time period in regard to consumer relations is astounding. In the "old" days we still had the 1-2 percent of customers that were unreasonable, but this number has multiplied exponentially in just the last 5-8 years. I'm afraid it is just an issue of reinforced behavior. If you have a dog that craps on the floor, and when he does this you give him a treat, guess whats going to happen the next time you come in? And the time after that, etc. etc..... With competition what it is today in most major markets, most dealers are terrified to let a customer out on the street dissatisfied. Because of this we constantly reinforce very poor behavior. This is further reinforced by the "Customer Assistance Center" individuals, who in most cases appear to side against the dealer even before gathering information. There is nothing like a double standard to increase your stress level. (If GM had to live up to the standards set for you by them, or if they had to operate in a true retail environment, they wouldn't last 24 hours.)
Throw in a few individuals that make a sport out of jerking your chain and it's a recipe for early heart attacks.

What have we learned?
Everyone that comes through our door is not a customer worth retaining. The trick is in identifying these individuals as soon as possible and terminating the relationship in a professional manner. We always do our very best to work things out with a customer, but we have our limits. If we sold the vehicle, we stand behind it with a smile for the entire warranty, and then decide whether to continue a CP relationship or even to sell a subsequent vehicle to this individual. The fallacy is in believing that if you give these owners what they want, at least they won't talk bad about you in the street. Think again. They'll take your money and still trash you. Not only will they trash you, but they will let every one they talk to know that they raised h*ll and got what they wanted!! (vicious cycle aint it) The decision to terminate a customer relationship is clearly a dealer level decision. For those of you that have dealers that came up through the service dept or spend time there, you are ahead of the game.

Oh, by the way, there are very few things in life that I am "completely satisfied" with, and of the things I am, GM isn't even close.

gman

[This message has been edited by gman (edited 03-27-2001).]

[This message has been edited by gman (edited 03-27-2001).]

[Steve Young]

You need to review Bullitin 00-05-22-002, which states that brake pulsation is often caused by factors outside customer control. in these instances the repair is covered under the GM new vehicle warranty.

[jwise67]

We were in the same boat with a Denali customer. We did not machine the rotors under warranty. The customer had over 30,000 miles on the vehicle. No doubt that we would be debited back for this claim. The service rep said not to do this repair under warranty.
Janet

[DKM]

Hello,

I work for a Lincoln Mercury Dealer about 9 years with Ford/Lincoln/Mercury at various locations. I have held Positions as a Service Manager, Service Advisor, Dispatcher, Currently working in the Service Advisor role.

There is no question with Ford that they will allow machining under warranty, sometimes I even replace pads under warranty for "excessive wear or noise".

Put yourself in the customers shoes, paying $20,000 + for a new vehicle (depending on the model) and the brakes pulsate, squeel, wear out at 20,000 miles you have warranty left but nobody wants to help you out, pretty frustrating spot to be in.

Make your customers happy, machine the rotors, in most cases it is not the customers fault. It is Harder Pads, Smaller Rotors, things the customer has nothing to do with. It is a manufacturing concern let them pay for it.

[mmorris]

Here's the million dollar question.

Why is there a bulletin out on the N body telling us to replace pads and rotors when there is a pulsation?

I believe there are a few other models included in that bulletin.

Would you make a customer pay for the pads if within 3/36?

------------------
Matthew J Morris, SPRS

[Steve Wright]

WOW
What was the orginal topic? Brake pulastaion and pad replacement in most cases I handle as customer pay. If its beyond 15,000 miles its CP .Why get into a situation with the factory who likes to change their mind and your rep at the drop of a hat. Handle the exceptions, if you gotta machine rotors under warranty which I don't believe in,then document it and sign it, and deal with it. This argument is so old, and I rarely deal with it in my store. Because my writers know what our policy is. I deal with the factory and don't run into problems. We are very profitable and have good CSI.
Service is a sales department,have we forgot how to sell?
All car lines are the same, just in a different language. Brakes are a problem, but lets go on.

[This message has been edited by Steve Wright (edited 05-03-2001).]

[Michael White]

Steve, I started this topic in August of last year. this must be a record for the longest trailer of all. the topic keeps coming back. I think this topic is a hot item because it deals with the "GM GREY" of our lifes. It is not a concern for me now because of the new DSM I have. He is extremely customer friendly, and very supportive to our dealership. But ask 5 reps on this subject and you will get 5 different answers. It is also interesting since I first started this topic, now GM will gaurentee 24,000 miles on brake pads under normal conditions. GM surpirses me sometimes. It was a great move for CSI. Now if we can get our 2500 series Suburbans and Yukons (old design) to last that long (even after the bulletin)
Mike