Variable diagnostic time

[Cindi]

I am hoping someone can shed some light on a topic that baffles me. In the P&P manual, it speaks of straight time. It refers to OLH, which is fine. My question is, how do you train a tech to punch EVERY time he goe to diagnose something? I understand what they are trying to accomplish but if I can't even tell the tech which LOP's have variable diagnosis and which already have diag time built in, who can? At what point does someone says, this is ridiculous! Have they forgotten that the tech is supposed to fix the car and not spend his time punching a time clock. Am I the only person that hears tech complaining because they are expected to punch a time clock all the time but when they do it right, they do not get paid for it? Is there anyone that has solved this problem, short of purchasing a time clock for every bay in service? I wouls appreciate any and all answers.

[dmroper]

We've had that problem also, and let me start by saying no- you're not alone in hearing the tech complain. Unfortunately it seems like a pretty grey area in the PNP.

[robc]

Time recording is actually more of a problem at GM stores than dealerships. This is because most factories require all claims to be time recorded.

As you mentioned, you often don't know you are performing a labor operation that requires time recording until it's too late.

In general though, variable diagnosis only applies to electrical problems, so straight mechnical repairs are a little easier to determine. If the customer complaint relates indicator light (engine, ABS, etc.), or chassis electrical I know a time punch will be required.

I know it's difficult, but how do you dispatch the work to the technicians? Normally, shops will hit the time clock when they hand the job over to the tech, then adjust what to submit for from there.

It's tough for all shops, but it is part of the tech's job. In shop meetings I usually use the speed limit analogy ... something like, "I know we are all used to doing 75 mph, but the police are out in force, and we got to bring it back down to 65. Please don't complain because you can't do 75 anymore, cause the truth is you should have never been doing that activity before."

I know a lot techs will still just shake their heads at you, but what else can we say?

Have Fun!!

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** Rob, Editor WD&S **
Help is only a message post away!
robc@dealersedge.com

[MARY SHERICK]

THE WAY THAT HAS WORKED BEST IS TO LITERALLY ROUND THE TECHS UP IN A MEETING AND EXPLAIN WITH EXAMPLES WHAT IS EXPECTED. IT IS EASIER TO GET THEM IN THE HABIT OF CLOCKING ALL REPAIR ORDERS. STRATEGICALLY PLACED TIME CLOCKS DO HELP. WE HAVE THREE IN OUR TECH WORK AREA. THIS REDUCES THEIR WALK TIME. IF TECHS GET IN THE HABIT OF CLOCKING ALL DIAGNOSIS AND REPAIR TIME BY JOB, IT IS EASIER TO MAKE SURE THE PROPER TIME IS CODED, BOOKED, AND PAID TO THE TECHS. IT DOES TAKE SOME TIME TO GET THEM USED TO THE HABIT, BUT THEY GRIPE LESS WHEN THEY SEE HOW IT BENFITS THEM. IN MY EXPERIENCE, THIS PRACTICE ACUTALLY MAKES EVERYONE'S JOB EASIER, EXCEPT AUDIT TEAMS!!! IF YOU HAVE THE NEGATIVE RESISTANCE, YOU HAVE TO SHOW THE TECH WHAT IS IN IT FOR THEM. IF YOU HAVE THIS SITUATION, ARE THEY RECORDING DYE TESTS, COOLING SYSTEM PRESSURE TESTS, AND LEAK TESTING DISCHARGED A/C SYSTEMS, AND ARE THEY BEING PROPERLY PAID FOR THOSE?? IT MIGHT BE TIME TO DO A SAMPLE SELF-AUDIT NOT ONLY FOR ERRORS, BUT ALSO FOR MISSED CODING OPPORTUNITIES.

[Cindi]

I thought I maight add a little info that I have found out over the last few days. Our new 'rep' who was previously from Olds, didn't know the policy existed and I quote-"there must be a flaw in the P&P book and I won't hold you responsible". I thought that a pretty interesting answer. Anyway, I work for a pretty fair dealer, we decided to let the techs come up with some suggestions on how to comply with the policy and that way they will all be in agreement and they will have decided how they would like to do it. If we have to put a timeclock in every bay, so be it. I guess it boils down to time punching a diagnostic time flag for *every* single ticket. Thanks for the suggestions everybody.

[MARY SHERICK]

I WOULD BE VERY LEERY OF TAKING A REP'S WORD THAT YOU WILL NOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT IS IN THE P & P. REST ASSURED, ANY AUDIT TEAM WILL HOLD THE DEALER ACCOUNTABLE. IT IS FAR MORE COMFORTABLE TO BE ABLE TO SHOW A REP THAT I DID IT THIS WAY BECAUSE OF ARTICLE 1.2.3, PARAGRAPH 2, ETC. IF IT IS IN BLACK AND WHITE, AND YOU COMPLY, YOU ARE STANDING ON FIRMER GROUND. JUST THINK, WHERE IS YOUR OLD REP? IF YOU HAVE TAKEN HIS WORD, IS HE STILL AROUND TO DEFEND YOU, AND BACK YOU UP?? WE DO NOT HAVE TO LIKE THE RULES GM MAKES, BUT IT IS EASIER TO BEAT THEM WITH THIER OWN RULE BOOK THAN TO TELL THEM THAT YOU DO NOT LIKE THEIR RULES. YOUR COMMENT ON TECHS DECIDING HOW TO CLOCK IS INTERESTING. WHO IS CHECKING UP ON THEM?? I DO NOT MEAN TO IMPLY YOU HAVE ANY DISHONEST TECHS, BUT TIME RECORDING AND ASSOCIATED STRAIGHT TIME ISSUES SHOULD BE CAREFULLY MONITERED BY THE SERVICE MANAGEMENT, THE TECHS ARE REQUIRED TO MEET GM'S TIME RECORDING REQUIREMENTS IF THEY WANT THE TIME BOOKED. IN THIS CASE, YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT IS REQUIRED, THEN THEY NEED TO DO IT.

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[dmroper]

I agree, Mary-

We at our dealer are constantly in a pickle with service writers, technicians, and upper management, who ultimately decide to goodwill certain repairs.. We get the calls in our warranty room asking about warranty coverage. We let a customer know, for example, that because they lifted their vehicle 50 feet off the ground, their lower control arms are not covered, because they drilled through them. THeir CV boots are not covered either, because they are streached like an accordion and grease is leaking all over... Service writers deliver the news, and service management tells the irate customer that they will 'goodwill one time only' an item..

When our rep comes by (he is a great guy, but still our rep) he mingles with service management and agrees about defects in materials, repairs needed, and GOODWILL. However- In an audit, we simply can't say- You said this was okay ? What gives ? We know he is a good guy, we know he is concerned about our customers.. We also know he has the ability to take it all back.. We all know with the restructuring going on that someone new is going to be watching HIM also, and that dealers in trouble will likely still be in trouble, even if their rep agrees and says everything is okay.

Variable diagnostic is pretty clear now, but a clerk like myself has no ability to say- "you can't get paid because you don't have clock times.. You can't get paid because you clocked off and not on.. On and not off.. It hasn't been 18 minutes from when you clocked in.. You can't get full time for that PCM reprogram.." and so on..The tech complains to management, I, the lowly clerk looks like a jerk.
Strange that the other clerk and I are also likely to blame should the audit team come in and see missing clock times..

Relationships with the techs are important, but sometimes we've got to make the call and tell them no.

That assertiveness training course helped a little..

[MARY SHERICK]

ROB, I AGREE WHOLE-HEARTEDLY. IT SOUNDS LIKE YOUR DEALER AND SERVICE MANAGER NEED TO DECIDE WHETHER THEY WANT TO ALLOW YOU TO PERFORM THE FUNCTION OF WARRANTY ADMINISTRATOR, OR WARRANTY CLERK. IF THEY EXPECT YOU TO POLICE COMPLIANCE OF THEIR WARRANTY CLAIMS, THEY HAVE TO GIVE YOU THE AUTHORITY TO DO IT. YOU ARE BEING PAID FOR YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THE SYSTEM. IT IS RIDICULOUS FOR THEM TO EXPECT YOU TO BE ABLE TO KEEP THEIR CLAIMS PAID IF THEY REFUSE TO ABIDE BY THE RULES. ALL THIS DOES IS PROMOTE AN ATMOSPHERE WHERE DISHONESTY IS BEING REWARDED. IF A TECH DOES NOT TAKE THE TIME TO RECORD HIS TIME CORRECTLY, HE IS NOT ENTITLED TO THE PAY FOR IT. THE DEALER PRINCIPAL WOULD BE ABLE TO SPEAK TO ANY NUMBER OF DEALERS AFTER AN AUDIT WHO WISHED THEY HAD THOUGHT ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCES OF SLIPSHOD PAPERWORK BEFORE THEY WERE AUDITED. I'M SURE WD&S COULD PROVIDE SOME NAMES. IF THE TECHS ARE TAUGHT TO COMPLY AND THEN MADE TO COMPLY, IT DOES WORK. THERE IS SOME GRUMBLING AT FIRST, BUT IN THE LONG RUN IT MAKES EVERYONE'S JOB EASIER. IN MY EXPERIENCE, WHEN A REP GETS USED TO SEEING COMPLETE CCC DOCUMENTATION INCLUDING CIRCUIT #S, WIRE COLORS, HARNESS LOCATION,ETC., ALONG WITH DIAGNOSIS AND REPAIR CLOCKS, THEY VERY SOON GET TIRED OF READING. ALSO, THEY ARE FAR MORE LIKELY TO ATTRIBUTE COST UPS AND DOWNS TO VARIATIONS IN THE TYPES OF REPAIR PRESENTED, THAN TO OUT AND OUT SUSPICION. IF YOU WOULD CARE TO DISCUSS FURTHER YOU CAN ALSO E-MAIL ME ON GM ACCESS. JUST TYPE IN MY NAME AND IT WILL FIND ME IN LOTUS NOTES.

[sallen1]

Great topic. I just had the 'pleasure' of my new GM rep to accuse us of overspending on OLH. Since Cadillac is new to him, I'll give a benefit of doubt on some things, but he compared us to his other dealers and said we're out of line. He did not know what the rule on OLH were for Cadillac so he provided us with a 'self audit'. I hope these people get a clue soon, they are wasting alot of time and effort to climb the learning curve.

My suggestions to all: follow the P&P and mark pages that apply to what is in dispute. You cannot take the reps word as fact as the auditors never care what the rep told you.

[MARY SHERICK]

SALLEN, YOU ARE RIGHT. IF YOU REGARD THE POLICIES AND PROCEDURES MANUAL AS THE BIBLE, AND CAN APPLY IT, THE REPS WILL BACK OFF. MY REP JUST HAD A FIT BECAUSE WE HAD TO DO A NUMBER OF ADD CREDITS DUE TO A PARTS TAPE ERROR. IT INVOLVED GOING AFTER THE 10 PERCENT MARKUP LEFT OFF A NUMBER OF CLAIMS SINCE THE PART COST ON THE TAPE WAS WRONG. ONCE WE WERE ABLE TO SHOW HIM THAT WE WERE AWARE OF THE SITUATION, THAT WE KNEW THAT THE WAY WE GOT THE MONEY WAS CORRECT AND LEGAL, THE ONLY QUESTION HE HAD WAS WHY WE HAD NOT GOTTEN A LUMP-SUM PAYMENT INSTEAD. SINCE THIS WAS IN DECEMBER, YOU ALL CAN RELATE TO HOW EASY IT WAS TO GET ANYONE AT GM TO DO ANYTHING EXCEPT COVER THEIR OWN BUTT, AND INTERVIEW FOR THEIR NEW JOBS. THE BOTTOM LINE IS THE P & P. IF WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS ACCORDING TO THAT, YOU CAN FIGHT ANY REP,AUDIT TEAM, ETC. OF COURSE, IT IS EASIER NOT TO FIGHT, BUT IF YOUR PAPERWORK IS IN ORDER, AND CLEAN, YOU CAN STILL WIN.

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