g.m. tac

[sandman]

HELLO ALL AND THANK YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME TO READ THIS .... I HAVE NOTICED A FEW POSTINGS ON TAC RECOMMENDATIONS AND HAVE WONDERED HAVE YOU HAD ANYTHING GOOD TO SAY ABOUT TAC????? I AM A TAC CONSULTANT AND TAKE PRIDE IN MY JOB... I HAVE BEEN A TECH FOR 12 YEARS AND WORKED AS A ENGINEERING PLATFORM TECH CONTRACTED TO GM FOR THE LAST 4 YEAR BEFORE JOINING TAC. SEEMS AS IF MOST DEALERS POSTING HEAR ONLY HAVE BAD THINGS TO SAY... PLEASE REMEMBER YOU ARE HEARING ONLY ONE SIDE OF THE COIN , THERE ARE MANY TIMES DURING MY WORK DAY WHEN TECHS OR SERVICE MANAGERS CALL US WITH NOT ALL REQUESTED INFO OR HAVE A PROBLEM WITH STARTING A CASE ON THERE CALL. SOMETIMES IT SEEMS AS IF WE ARE USED ONLY AS AN EASY WAY TO YOUR CUSTOMER SOLUTIONS, LIKE CALLING FOR THE SILVER BULLET TO YOUR PROBLEM WHEN INDEED YOU HAVE NOT DONE YOUR HOMEWORK OR BOTHERED TO OPERATE ESI, OR PERHAPS IS IT THAT YOUR TECH HAS INSTALLED $1500 IN PARTS ON THAT VEHICLE AND ONLY NOW YOU YOU BOTHER TO PICK UP THE PHONE . SORRY IF I SOUND KIND OF HARSH BUT PUT YOURSELF IN OUR SHOES WERE HEAR TO HELP YOU AND WE CANT ALWAYS DO THAT IF YOU CANT HELP YOURSELF. WE TRY TO ANSWER YOUR CALLS IN A TIMELY MANNER BUT SOMETIMES WE GET HELD UP WITH UNNESSARY CALLS TO US DO TO NO BULLETIN SEARCHS WERE PREFORMED OR INFO WAS AVALIBLE TO TECH AND DID NOT TAKE THE TIME TO RESEARCH IT !!! AS FOR THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ISSUE THERE ARE MANY VEHICLE WE FIX OVER THE PHONE IN A TIMLEY MANNER AND DO NOT HAVE TO SEND OUT A FIELD SERVICE ENGINEER... SO TO END PLEASE DONT TAKE OUT YOUR FRUSTRATIONS OUT ON US , WERE HERE TO HELP YOU GET RID OF YOUR HEADACHE VEHICLES!!!!! LETS HERE ABOUT SOME GOOD THING WE MAY HAVE HELPED YOU SOLVE.... SANDMAN

[sallen1]

Sandman,

Sorry if some of the comments posted on these forums upset you. What's funny is I'm having trouble remembering if my managers have mentioned anything good about TAC. One thing to remember, people that have problems look for solutions (which is opposed to people happy with a service and wanting to advertise it...) and in the 'forum environment' the questions and answers may look more like a bitch session. Some of it has a ring of truth, however.

Here's a scenario to contemplate...

We used to be able to call CADSTAR for tech assistance and the people there were really, really good. They knew what was happening and also knew if the problem we had was similar to what others were experiencing. There were even field engineers available for on-site help. That has changed.

What we get now from TAC is generally the responses like you stated: Did you look on ESI? What have you tried? Did you make the problem worse? Do you like to stay on hold for a while? It's almost like you are treating us as unexperienced or worse: untrained and are now only calling after making the problem worse. I'd like to say that our training comes from only a couple sources: GM provided courses (were at 98%+ trained for the past 4 years) or by trial and error directed by our DSM.

You have to keep in mind that multiple visits to a dealership for the same problem brings consumer protection laws into play. We don't have the luxury to fiddle around with these technical problems, we have to fix it the first time.

Why is there no general databank that can be used to trace complaint-cause-correction? Every time we contact TAC with a problem we get the feeling like this is the first time anyone has heard about it.

Here's an example of what I'm describing. Are you aware of the oil consumption problem with some 4.6L Northstar engines? It doesn't happen on all cars, but for the customers (we have over 100 going thru the consumption survey) its a little frustrating (more than 1qt per 1000 miles). Besides, the customer also has the feeling that we're stalling or putting them off till the warranty expires. What help do we get? TAC has no answers and wants us to report back what fix we invent. Our DSM wants us to 'rebuild' the motor by boring uneven cylinders and installing oversized pistons and rings. It's a mess. The correct fix is to replace the engine and since there's no Northstar short blocks we have to get the complete assembly. I almost had to use a stick on my DSM to get him to approve engine claims. And this is occuring during the summer where our regional general manager wants us to do 'anything to improve customer satisfaction'. What he left out was the admonision to not spend any of GM's money doing it.

If I sound a little upset, you are getting a good impression. CADSTAR was useful and the engineers used to come and visit (especially for difficult problems). Now there is NO SUPPORT.

Perhaps I expect too much.

scott

[jrcal]

Let me start by stating TAC has gotten a lot better in the last year. The people seem to be more interested in helping us find the problem (intead of questioning our abilities) and seem to have a better attitude about the relationship between dealer and TAC.

Having said that, I would like to point out some things:

1. Have you ever tried to use ESI to find a bulletin? Of course not, you use your database and keyword method. When I talk to TAC, I usually tell them I remember reading a related bulletin but can't find it on ESI. Even after TAC gives me the bulletin number, ESI can't find it. Your bulletin numbers and ESI are not always the same. Also remember ESI has a LONG way to go before all the problems are worked out.
2. We don't have access to your data base. If we did, we might not have to take up the TAC engineer's time as a lot of the information we want is contained in that database.
3. We try to use TAC as another tool to gain as much information as possible to make to best repair we can. As you know, the better informed you are the better your chances to fix it right the first time. This may explain to you why we don't always have an RO number or why we haven't performed SBD on the vehicle when we talk to you. We are trying to gather as much information as we can before we attempt the repair.
4. Please try to remember how hard it is to fix these complicated vehicles when the car is sold before the service manuals are completed and published with correct information.
5. The reason there is a shortage of technicians these days is because it is a hard way to make a living compared to other technical fields. The techs are put under a lot of pressure from all sides to fix it right the first time. When they call you, the are already frustrated because they will NOT be paid for MOST of their time they have spent trying to find answers to questions. Phrases like "you should have checked this or that" would sound better if you said "we need to check this or that"

I hope this gives you a better view of things from our perspective.
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JC

[This message has been edited by jrcal (edited 08-06-99).]

[robc]

Great thread everybody - definitely something worth contributing to. Thanks to Sandman though for reminding us that just like in kindergarten, the good people who follow the rules and do things right will get held up by those who don't and instead look towards TAC as a substitute for training and doing their homework.

I've never been inside watching GM TAC at work, but I have seen others, and believe they are dilligent at trying to provide the answers based on situation that is presented to them ... nobody is perfect and I don't think many dealers expect perfection out of TAC.

However ... the customer, the ASM, and GM auditors seem to expect perfection out of everybody -- everytime! And since TAC is not holding the bag for the money being spent, nor are they the ones who stand at the service drive as the customer says he's leaving from the dealership to go to his lawyer to file a lemon law, they should be more understanding of the dealership's position.

I see all the time where dealers either don't get paid or are chargedback for following the advice of TAC. Further, if there are 15 bulletins about possible drivability problems with 'x-vehicles' what good is a bulletin search going to do? The dealership isn't authorized to just perform all 15 of them to see what works. These types of examples could go on for days ... I'll give others a chance to post their experiences and I ENCOURAGE THOSE WHO HAVE HAD A POSITIVE EXPERIENCE TO POST THEIR EXPERIENCES AS WELL!!!!

A year ago I ran the first and only joke published in my newsletter, and I think it fits here in this discussion:

A man is flying in a hot air balloon and realizes he is lost. He reduces height and spots a man down below. He lowers the balloon further and shouts:
Excuse me, can you tell me where I am? The man below says: Yes, youre in a hot air balloon, hovering 30 feet above this field.
You must be an engineer for technicial assistance, says the balloonist.
I am, replies the man. How did you know?
Well, says the balloonist, everything you have told me is technically correct, but its of no use to anyone. The man below says, You must work at a dealership.
I do, replies the balloonist, but how did you know?
Well, says the man, you dont know where you are, or where youre going, but expect me to be able to help. Youre in the same position you were before we met, but now its my fault.

Not only is that joke funny, at least for those of us who at the end of the day can still find some humor in this business, but it presents both sides of the argument really well.



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** Rob, Editor WD&S **
Help is only a message post away!
robc@dealersedge.com

[RCARR]

WOW! I ave personally made several calls
to tac in the last few months, I
personally have been somewhat impressed,
I have even recieved follow up calls just
find out if we fixed it, one even called
to let me know that he had found some
more information. Thanks to the guys that
do have some technical background and the
knowledge to actually fix a car if it
came down to it! The other side, in the
same period of time I have come across
some consultants that didnt know which
way was up! It was quite obvious that
they had no aoutmotive background and
really didnt even understand the
complaint. I Have had more positive
experiences latley than bad. So its up to
the GOOD TAC consultants to remind the
supervisors and managers how important it
is to hire knowlege and experience, not
college grads who are using this only as
wrung on the ladder!!!!!!



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[Michael White]

Over the phone technical assistance is a difficult thing to do. We use it mostly to see if anyone else has experienced a particular concern. We do all the "prechecks" first before calling. All of us are put into a difficult position sometimes by technical assistance. If they say after doing this and that, then replace this, and it did not fix it. what are we do do? GM should work out a system where info given by technical assistance will be honored by all DSM's and other GM personnel. Cadillac use to have the best TAC and field engineers in the business. We would be able to get one of them at our dealership relatively easily. Now it is impossible plus there are far too much product mix to have one or two field engineers to have expertise.
Here is a concern: In our area, we are experiencing massive injector failures on trucks. There is a bulletin on this conern. We are experiencing the same problems on 1999 trucks as well. I called my DSM because I was concerned on the cost issues related to the bulletin and injector problems, especially since only certain areas of the country are experiencing the problem. I contacted TAC and wanted to know what specifically was going on with this problem, and what is GM doing about it for a permanenet fix. Did not get any satisfactory answers.Called my DSM for advise. He said our local field engineer will swing by to review procedures and talk to the techs. This was 3 weeks ago and no one has contacted us. This is not a big deal, but I have reviewed the bulletin and we are following it to the letter. Yet the warranty costs are significant. Its great to have the work, but I am concerned about the expense part since only certain areas have the problem.
I think there should be some very rigid standards made for using TAC. I do believe too many poeple will use it first, rather than doing the research first. I have noticed some improvement in recent months, so keep up the good work.
Mike White