what steps or ideas do you have to prevent excessive returns from your body shop? there are 1/3 off our gross profit each month, but sometimes i am willing to give that up just to get some peace! i have informed the body shop manager that they are ruining our reputation with vendors! i have asked them to question the customers about there accessory items before we order a comparitive part to prevent a return. we are a dodge dealer and they don't get paid off of parts, so they don't consider our concerns. what do you do about freight and restocking fees? returns are so bad that restocking fees are increasing to 25% on some items.
need a dealer without a bodyshop....smiling
turbo59
body shop problems
11 posts
• Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2
body shop problems
by Doug » Sat Sep 01, 2001 10:53 pm
Age-old problem. Our body shop does quite a large volume so we were able to easily justify a hiring a parts counterman devoted solely to the body shop operation. This change alone made quite a difference and the returned - parts problem was reduced significantly. This person actually works in the body shop but is a parts department employee.
The parts department treats the body shop like the good customer it is and is pretty flexible about returns. However, if for whatever reason the part is NOT returnable, the body shop, not parts department, eats it.
Similarly, if the same type of mistake happens over and over, charging the goof back to the body shop a couple times usually solves the problem. Same thing for Service Department, too.
Returns are just part of daily business in the Parts Department but there is no reason for Parts to continually take the hit for the carelessness of others.
In your case it sounds like somebody needs to put their foot down....!
Good luck,
Doug
The parts department treats the body shop like the good customer it is and is pretty flexible about returns. However, if for whatever reason the part is NOT returnable, the body shop, not parts department, eats it.
Similarly, if the same type of mistake happens over and over, charging the goof back to the body shop a couple times usually solves the problem. Same thing for Service Department, too.
Returns are just part of daily business in the Parts Department but there is no reason for Parts to continually take the hit for the carelessness of others.
In your case it sounds like somebody needs to put their foot down....!
Good luck,
Doug
- Doug
body shop problems
by FARFINATOR » Sun Sep 02, 2001 7:14 am
TURB0;
Here's most of the problem. Body shop managers are fundatmentally a lazy pack who don't do their job. They cheat. Rather than preparing estimates themselves, they rely on insurance co. prepared estimates to initiate work and parts orders.Having sat in their seat and been an insurance appraiser I can say this!The problem there is 2 fold. First, the insurance companies write lean and won't account for questionable items until a supplement inspection, so either you don't get all the stuff on the first shot or you get a door panel instead of the door cause the impact protection bars are compromised. Second, often times the CCC, Motors, or ADP part references are sketchy and in their haste the wrong components are selected and do not suit that vehicle.
To avoid these all too common problems I would insist the Body Shop Manager accept liabilty for working off insurance adjuster estimates and charge accordingly, but offer the appropriate assistance if they wish to cooperate with you to compile a more accurate order. You, however maintain some liabilty for avoiding some of these troubles yourself by verifying components by vin specific confirmation.
Lastly, never accept damaged crap back, period. If you can't return it on a monthly return or obsolesence return because of condition or lack of appropriate packaging thats their problem. Don't forget your body shop is a captive customer. They can't shop elsewhere. Don't let them take advantage of you..Your success in furnishing them their parts is critical to their success more than it is yours, and certainly so if this carelessness is as flagrant as you indicate..
Here's most of the problem. Body shop managers are fundatmentally a lazy pack who don't do their job. They cheat. Rather than preparing estimates themselves, they rely on insurance co. prepared estimates to initiate work and parts orders.Having sat in their seat and been an insurance appraiser I can say this!The problem there is 2 fold. First, the insurance companies write lean and won't account for questionable items until a supplement inspection, so either you don't get all the stuff on the first shot or you get a door panel instead of the door cause the impact protection bars are compromised. Second, often times the CCC, Motors, or ADP part references are sketchy and in their haste the wrong components are selected and do not suit that vehicle.
To avoid these all too common problems I would insist the Body Shop Manager accept liabilty for working off insurance adjuster estimates and charge accordingly, but offer the appropriate assistance if they wish to cooperate with you to compile a more accurate order. You, however maintain some liabilty for avoiding some of these troubles yourself by verifying components by vin specific confirmation.
Lastly, never accept damaged crap back, period. If you can't return it on a monthly return or obsolesence return because of condition or lack of appropriate packaging thats their problem. Don't forget your body shop is a captive customer. They can't shop elsewhere. Don't let them take advantage of you..Your success in furnishing them their parts is critical to their success more than it is yours, and certainly so if this carelessness is as flagrant as you indicate..
- FARFINATOR
body shop problems
by Gerry Laughlin » Mon Sep 03, 2001 9:42 am
Turbo,
I think the first step is to sit down and ask yourself what would you do different if this was Joes Body Shop down the street doing this to you? What steps would you take to correct the situation, yet retain him as a customer? If you have taken those steps then you only have a couple of choices. The first being take a greater load on your department or the second choice of trying to charge the body shop, which will probably lead to a sit-down with the owner and the body shop manager. Before I went the second route I would make sure I had done everything I could along the lines of correcting return problems before they become a problem.
Like Doug we have a bodyshop partsman that works right in the body shop, this alone has helped tremendously. He is there as a problem begins to develop instead of after it has become a full-blown disaster. It doesnt take a lot to get the estimators trained to call out the parts guy to look at something ahead of time, instead of when it is too late. Another thing we have done, is that on vehicles that are coming in at a later date to be repaired, yet the parts are being ordered ahead of time, we do usually wait a day or two before ordering, just in case the situation changes. If there are more than one or two special orders on the RO we wait until a day or two before the car is due in, then the parts guy will call to confirm the appointment before we place the order.
On a related note, in the first paragraph I mention Joes bodyshop, but at least Joe is making a profit on them. I worry that if GM does remove the gross profit transfer to Service and Bodyshop as is rumored, that attitudes similar to the Bodyshop Managers at Turbo59s dealer will become the norm instead of the exception.
Good Luck,
Gerry Laughlin
I think the first step is to sit down and ask yourself what would you do different if this was Joes Body Shop down the street doing this to you? What steps would you take to correct the situation, yet retain him as a customer? If you have taken those steps then you only have a couple of choices. The first being take a greater load on your department or the second choice of trying to charge the body shop, which will probably lead to a sit-down with the owner and the body shop manager. Before I went the second route I would make sure I had done everything I could along the lines of correcting return problems before they become a problem.
Like Doug we have a bodyshop partsman that works right in the body shop, this alone has helped tremendously. He is there as a problem begins to develop instead of after it has become a full-blown disaster. It doesnt take a lot to get the estimators trained to call out the parts guy to look at something ahead of time, instead of when it is too late. Another thing we have done, is that on vehicles that are coming in at a later date to be repaired, yet the parts are being ordered ahead of time, we do usually wait a day or two before ordering, just in case the situation changes. If there are more than one or two special orders on the RO we wait until a day or two before the car is due in, then the parts guy will call to confirm the appointment before we place the order.
On a related note, in the first paragraph I mention Joes bodyshop, but at least Joe is making a profit on them. I worry that if GM does remove the gross profit transfer to Service and Bodyshop as is rumored, that attitudes similar to the Bodyshop Managers at Turbo59s dealer will become the norm instead of the exception.
Good Luck,
Gerry Laughlin
- Gerry Laughlin
body shop problems
by Steve Wells » Tue Sep 04, 2001 8:35 pm
Turbo,
First let's shoot FARFINATOR, and then disregard the lies and castigating attitude that would even allow a moron to make a statement like "Body shop managers are fundatmentally (sic, fundamentally) a lazy pack who don't do their job" let alone the other false statements. This would resolve one of the first problems; build a relationship with your Body Shop Manager. Leaders build long-standing team concepts, and being "only a manager" will result in disappointment and frustration. Express your concerns with the manager and ask his opinion of how you could "help him" lower his returns.
If he blows up and fires off at you, you know with certainty that he's having a problem managing his department, and he and the Owner or GM should have a little chat. If he talks openly about the problems you're on the road to leadership. Other suggestions can follow such as: Is every vehicle inspected and/or reviewed with the estimate (insurance or otherwise) before the parts order for accuracy? Digital pictures can be taken for reference, color and supplemental parts/labor documentation. Can the Reviewing Body Shop Appraiser spend a little time with the Parts counter person to insure an accurate order? In our Body Shop, all orders other than DaimlerChrysler OE are the responsibility of the Body Shop Manager and Appraisers, (whom are paid a body shop parts commission) are they not the most familiar with the GM and Ford or other vendors parts that they require? They handle all orders, billing of parts, and returns of outside vendors.
Is the shop large, and not have a parts person that is responsible for smooth order flow?
Is the shop short-staffed and can't review estimates?
If your Body Shop Management is not paid on commission (body shop parts integrated) help them get there (I promise the returns will go down when their own money is involved) the commission is paid from the B.S. department, not yours, you keep the full markup and now you have additional salespersons that are ordering, billing and returning and you never see it cross the counter.
Are ALL the parts on the estimate being installed by the techs? This is a liability issue and must be addressed. A big no-no is repairing panels (to turn higher labor sales) that are flagged as replacement. If you have a new part on the estimate, you install it, period!
Check your depot status on GPOP for ALL parts availability before the order, don't give them an excuse for repairing vs replacement of the part.
A Body Shop, if ran and managed correctly can be a great asset for the Parts Department, in your case Turbo, I know that a few good months with hail damage in a Dodge store with 40% on sheet metal can really boost the bottom line numbers and your paycheck. If all else fails and you can't change the attitudes of the personnel involved, do not charge back the costs of returns to your department, go to your Owner or GM and explain why you feel it necessary to charge 346B(body shop policy adjustment) for returns and shipping costs incurred by the Body Shop and I'm sure you will gain his respect and a thumbs up. It's really all about attitudes, teamwork and if you want to help your store and your fellow employees.
As for Farfinator, I will capitulate and agree with him that obviously, all he did was sit in the seat.
Steve Wells (a former Body Shop Manager)
Fixed Operations Manager
Goodwin Bros. Automobile Co. Inc.
First let's shoot FARFINATOR, and then disregard the lies and castigating attitude that would even allow a moron to make a statement like "Body shop managers are fundatmentally (sic, fundamentally) a lazy pack who don't do their job" let alone the other false statements. This would resolve one of the first problems; build a relationship with your Body Shop Manager. Leaders build long-standing team concepts, and being "only a manager" will result in disappointment and frustration. Express your concerns with the manager and ask his opinion of how you could "help him" lower his returns.
If he blows up and fires off at you, you know with certainty that he's having a problem managing his department, and he and the Owner or GM should have a little chat. If he talks openly about the problems you're on the road to leadership. Other suggestions can follow such as: Is every vehicle inspected and/or reviewed with the estimate (insurance or otherwise) before the parts order for accuracy? Digital pictures can be taken for reference, color and supplemental parts/labor documentation. Can the Reviewing Body Shop Appraiser spend a little time with the Parts counter person to insure an accurate order? In our Body Shop, all orders other than DaimlerChrysler OE are the responsibility of the Body Shop Manager and Appraisers, (whom are paid a body shop parts commission) are they not the most familiar with the GM and Ford or other vendors parts that they require? They handle all orders, billing of parts, and returns of outside vendors.
Is the shop large, and not have a parts person that is responsible for smooth order flow?
Is the shop short-staffed and can't review estimates?
If your Body Shop Management is not paid on commission (body shop parts integrated) help them get there (I promise the returns will go down when their own money is involved) the commission is paid from the B.S. department, not yours, you keep the full markup and now you have additional salespersons that are ordering, billing and returning and you never see it cross the counter.
Are ALL the parts on the estimate being installed by the techs? This is a liability issue and must be addressed. A big no-no is repairing panels (to turn higher labor sales) that are flagged as replacement. If you have a new part on the estimate, you install it, period!
Check your depot status on GPOP for ALL parts availability before the order, don't give them an excuse for repairing vs replacement of the part.
A Body Shop, if ran and managed correctly can be a great asset for the Parts Department, in your case Turbo, I know that a few good months with hail damage in a Dodge store with 40% on sheet metal can really boost the bottom line numbers and your paycheck. If all else fails and you can't change the attitudes of the personnel involved, do not charge back the costs of returns to your department, go to your Owner or GM and explain why you feel it necessary to charge 346B(body shop policy adjustment) for returns and shipping costs incurred by the Body Shop and I'm sure you will gain his respect and a thumbs up. It's really all about attitudes, teamwork and if you want to help your store and your fellow employees.
As for Farfinator, I will capitulate and agree with him that obviously, all he did was sit in the seat.
Steve Wells (a former Body Shop Manager)
Fixed Operations Manager
Goodwin Bros. Automobile Co. Inc.
- Steve Wells
body shop problems
by FARFINATOR » Sat Sep 08, 2001 9:03 pm
Steve,
"SHOOT ME?!", well there's a excellent example of managerial tack and diplomacy at its best and finely honed leadership skills at work. Strike a nerve?
Exactly where, Steve, do you draw the line between "teamwork" and assuming the responsibility of another employee? I have to chuckle at the amount of effort you advocate Turbo go through to remedy his situation. I am high amused that you concider watch dogging repair vs replacement and commission proposals for other departments the responsibility of the Part Manager. But, what can you expect from a decidedly proud past Body Shop Manager. Why, Steve, can't we call a spade a spade. Why must we coddle and baby sit. Why shouldn't Turbo be able to simply run 3 months of reports reflecting the excessively high return rate from the Body Shop and request it be corrected in 2 months time or appropriate charges will result..as he might for Joe' Body Shop? Why do YOU suggest he go beyond cooperating with the Body Shop with parts verifications and ensuring timely and accurate orders, if the problems as you've surmised are specific to the Body Shop's Management?
P.S. Steve, your web-site still has you listed as the body shop manager! You might wish to get that changed. What, you've been fixed ops manager for a couple of weeks and now your a seasoned "leader?" HAaaaa
"SHOOT ME?!", well there's a excellent example of managerial tack and diplomacy at its best and finely honed leadership skills at work. Strike a nerve?
Exactly where, Steve, do you draw the line between "teamwork" and assuming the responsibility of another employee? I have to chuckle at the amount of effort you advocate Turbo go through to remedy his situation. I am high amused that you concider watch dogging repair vs replacement and commission proposals for other departments the responsibility of the Part Manager. But, what can you expect from a decidedly proud past Body Shop Manager. Why, Steve, can't we call a spade a spade. Why must we coddle and baby sit. Why shouldn't Turbo be able to simply run 3 months of reports reflecting the excessively high return rate from the Body Shop and request it be corrected in 2 months time or appropriate charges will result..as he might for Joe' Body Shop? Why do YOU suggest he go beyond cooperating with the Body Shop with parts verifications and ensuring timely and accurate orders, if the problems as you've surmised are specific to the Body Shop's Management?
P.S. Steve, your web-site still has you listed as the body shop manager! You might wish to get that changed. What, you've been fixed ops manager for a couple of weeks and now your a seasoned "leader?" HAaaaa
- FARFINATOR
body shop problems
by turbo59 » Sun Sep 09, 2001 9:18 pm
ok guys,
lets not fight here...smiling. i have tried talking to the body shop manager and shop foreman to no avail. i think i will get the general manager involved as someone earlier stated. what do you do about totals? i asked the body shop people to do a teardown first and then order parts on hard hits. i know that they get paid off of labor for teardowns. i have been able to get some insurance companies to pay restock fees, but it is not the norm. still trying compromising for now. ketchup and sheetmetal don't taste good.....smiling
turbo59
lets not fight here...smiling. i have tried talking to the body shop manager and shop foreman to no avail. i think i will get the general manager involved as someone earlier stated. what do you do about totals? i asked the body shop people to do a teardown first and then order parts on hard hits. i know that they get paid off of labor for teardowns. i have been able to get some insurance companies to pay restock fees, but it is not the norm. still trying compromising for now. ketchup and sheetmetal don't taste good.....smiling
turbo59
- turbo59
body shop problems
by Steve Wells » Mon Sep 10, 2001 5:45 pm
Farf,
Shoot you, LOL yes, for making typecasting and discriminating statements that you know are just not true. A Dealer Principal that expects it's Body Shop to run well, turn a respectable profit, and contributes to the overall customer and employee satisfaction index cannot have a Manager that is fundamentally lazy or does not do his or her job. That would be a weak link. Defining what that managers job description does/does not contain can lead to the inner department hostile responses where the responsibility of the ordering process and control of it is unknown to the managers involved. Strike a nerve unquestionably. Yes, I am essentially very proud of the Body Shop I managed at this dealership for 14 years. A small shop, 16 employees, 10,000 sq. ft. that now turns 1.8 million per year in sales. I have been a Diamond level (DaimlerChrysler) Service Manager, a Painter, a Body Tech, a frame tech, and a Mechanical line tech (GM). I have been requested numerous times to join other dealerships and insurance companies claims departments. I have been the Fixed Operations Manager and Computer Systems Administrator for the past 1 years. I have written process controls for our dealership operations for the past 5 years. I am conscious of my name remaining on the web site (the customers do not mind) and have suggested that we overhaul the entire site, as many changes have been made in the past year. As the Fixed Op manager, I have trained and managed every department including the Parts department. When I was requested to improve the parts and service processes, I started at the parts counter and service desk. THEY trained me as a co-worker. I was VERY proud when I was finally able to say without a doubt that I was a parts counterperson or that I was a service advisor. When it came time to change the process to improve, the employees were and are still right there beside me. The Rambling point beingthe line between teamwork and back-delegation is just that Farf, when it is not teamwork!
It was not intended to suggest that the responsibility of the parts department is to baby sit and allow back-delegation from other departments, only to review the processes (if there are any) and if necessary, suggest changes that could effect the overall performance of ALL departments. I did not summarize that Turbo's specific problems with his body shop management are global and occur in every inter-galactic shop know to man. If I do not have the problems associated with orders and returns, why can he also not have them?
The difference would be in the processes, and if they are being followed. If Turbo sees an opportunity to improve the process (including the management of a department), he should communicate that change to his managers or DP. That is teamwork, and why he should go beyond mere cooperation or just doing what it takes to get by. We should not forget that all employees in a dealership are salespersons. Parts, Service, Sales, the lowly Body Shophaha and should be treated as such. And Yes, I will retract the moron comment, you undoubtedly are not, and can articulate your feelings about the Body Shop, LOL, but the whole deck does not contain all spades now does it?
Turbo, teardowns are a required part of operations, necessary for first inspection of non-drivable vehicle insurance appraisals and supplemental parts/damage management. Parts should not be ordered without the consent of the owner of the vehicle with proper explanations of repair/insurance coverage and insurance authorizations to repair. If a total loss occurs after repairs have started (engine/transmission cracked or other high expense) I would find it very unlikely that the insurance co. would not pay parts return fees that were profitable to the parts department with proper documentation and explanations. If your shop manager does not follow proper processes for this, suggest the change.
Steve Wells
Shoot you, LOL yes, for making typecasting and discriminating statements that you know are just not true. A Dealer Principal that expects it's Body Shop to run well, turn a respectable profit, and contributes to the overall customer and employee satisfaction index cannot have a Manager that is fundamentally lazy or does not do his or her job. That would be a weak link. Defining what that managers job description does/does not contain can lead to the inner department hostile responses where the responsibility of the ordering process and control of it is unknown to the managers involved. Strike a nerve unquestionably. Yes, I am essentially very proud of the Body Shop I managed at this dealership for 14 years. A small shop, 16 employees, 10,000 sq. ft. that now turns 1.8 million per year in sales. I have been a Diamond level (DaimlerChrysler) Service Manager, a Painter, a Body Tech, a frame tech, and a Mechanical line tech (GM). I have been requested numerous times to join other dealerships and insurance companies claims departments. I have been the Fixed Operations Manager and Computer Systems Administrator for the past 1 years. I have written process controls for our dealership operations for the past 5 years. I am conscious of my name remaining on the web site (the customers do not mind) and have suggested that we overhaul the entire site, as many changes have been made in the past year. As the Fixed Op manager, I have trained and managed every department including the Parts department. When I was requested to improve the parts and service processes, I started at the parts counter and service desk. THEY trained me as a co-worker. I was VERY proud when I was finally able to say without a doubt that I was a parts counterperson or that I was a service advisor. When it came time to change the process to improve, the employees were and are still right there beside me. The Rambling point beingthe line between teamwork and back-delegation is just that Farf, when it is not teamwork!
It was not intended to suggest that the responsibility of the parts department is to baby sit and allow back-delegation from other departments, only to review the processes (if there are any) and if necessary, suggest changes that could effect the overall performance of ALL departments. I did not summarize that Turbo's specific problems with his body shop management are global and occur in every inter-galactic shop know to man. If I do not have the problems associated with orders and returns, why can he also not have them?
The difference would be in the processes, and if they are being followed. If Turbo sees an opportunity to improve the process (including the management of a department), he should communicate that change to his managers or DP. That is teamwork, and why he should go beyond mere cooperation or just doing what it takes to get by. We should not forget that all employees in a dealership are salespersons. Parts, Service, Sales, the lowly Body Shophaha and should be treated as such. And Yes, I will retract the moron comment, you undoubtedly are not, and can articulate your feelings about the Body Shop, LOL, but the whole deck does not contain all spades now does it?
Turbo, teardowns are a required part of operations, necessary for first inspection of non-drivable vehicle insurance appraisals and supplemental parts/damage management. Parts should not be ordered without the consent of the owner of the vehicle with proper explanations of repair/insurance coverage and insurance authorizations to repair. If a total loss occurs after repairs have started (engine/transmission cracked or other high expense) I would find it very unlikely that the insurance co. would not pay parts return fees that were profitable to the parts department with proper documentation and explanations. If your shop manager does not follow proper processes for this, suggest the change.
Steve Wells
- Steve Wells
body shop problems
by Richard » Tue Sep 11, 2001 8:45 am
I guess my attitude is different. I do get a bit upset with Bill (my body shop Manager) sometimes, but if you knock down a wall, rather than build one, think of your body shop manager as another partner, such as your service manager should be. He is going to make a mistake and order something he either doesn't need, or he is going to miss something and need it immeadiatly. YOU are going to make a mistake, and order the wrong part, or miss a line on an estimate. Guess what?? You are both imperfect humans, trying to do a job. Your very best effort to work together will promote a climate where when problems DO arise, you can work together to solve them. Knock down a wall!
- Richard
body shop problems
by turbo » Tue Sep 11, 2001 8:16 pm
hello richard,
the latest problem is this...we have had 6 totals in the last 8 weeks and it is after all the parts have arrived. many of you talk about teamwork, well my parts guy informed me about his doubts before ordering the parts. we talked to the body shop manger and the estimator for each job, guess what...every time they state that the job is not going to total! i don't want to go over the guys head, but i will if things don't change fast. i am only the asst. parts manager and i can't get things in stone. one i will find what i am looking for.....smiling.....a dealerhsip without a body shop!
somewhere in texas
turbo59
pray for the victums in america.....
the latest problem is this...we have had 6 totals in the last 8 weeks and it is after all the parts have arrived. many of you talk about teamwork, well my parts guy informed me about his doubts before ordering the parts. we talked to the body shop manger and the estimator for each job, guess what...every time they state that the job is not going to total! i don't want to go over the guys head, but i will if things don't change fast. i am only the asst. parts manager and i can't get things in stone. one i will find what i am looking for.....smiling.....a dealerhsip without a body shop!
somewhere in texas
turbo59
pray for the victums in america.....
- turbo
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