NADA DPS Survey

[callbob]

Go to NADA.ORG, Members Only, Technology, them take a look at the results form the DMS survey. Appear us "dummies" that are using the "smaller" DMS providers are quite happy. Will the big boys wake up???? Meanwhile my competitors and there EGO are paying $6,000 @ month for what I get for $600 a month. After reviewing the survey it appears that a few other DP have woke up to the fact that smaller is better/cheaper. Still the "GURU's" seem to want to trash the small DMS providers. Wake up an smell the Dollars. No advertising allowed-so you will need to look at the survey youself and see which Vendor is rated "Best Value" by Dealer Principals. (Hint-it does not go by initials or have + in its name)

[LBBarrow]

As a consultant and as an independent agent for one of the smaller DPS vendors (that did extremely well in the survey, by the way), it has never ceased to amaze me that many dealers overlook alternatives to reducing their data processing expense by refusing to examine the smaller companies that offer more flexible systems and better service ('They don't have all the bells and whistles I NEED, they don't offer the level of support, and they don't give you a 50% reduction in the proposed system upgrade price!') The 'big boys' can only succeed so long in ignoring or downplaying the importance of less-expensive alternatives.

[RPMGeorge]

Well, we are searching for alternetive DPS and are kinda stuck with what we have. Is there any we could purchase and maintain via Support / Updates?


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[john]

KNOW THE TRUTH BEFORE YOU SPEAK. IN THAT SURVEY, DSPs WERE ASKED TO PRESENT A LIST OF THOSE THEY PREFERED TO BE INTERVIEWED. WHAT A SET-UP. NOT A VERY OBJECTIVE EVALUATION AS I SEE IT. IF YOU LIKE YOUR PROVICER - FINE - BUT DON'T USE THAT SURVEY AS A TOOL TO SUPPORT YOUR LACK OF SERVICE. I KNOW OF THREE VENDORS ON THAT LIST THAT DID NOT SEND IN A SELECT LIST BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO KNOW THE TRUTH. WAS YOUR VENDOR AFRAID TO DO THE SAME?

[callbob]

RPMGeorge - NADA can provide you with a list of DSP Vendors - some you may have never heard of before it is suprising how many are out there.

John - The rules I assume were the same for all so that makes the results fairly accurate - statistically the are using 2-3% error range as I recall. Of course no survey of less then 100% of the pool can be "PERFECT". How would you know what the rules were and who participated and how? Do I detect an insider/vendor not happy with the results? I have a salesman that always has an reason(excuse) that he gets out sold and out grossed. It is hard to accept the truth some times. Rest assured - at my 20 group there are few if any DP's happy with the BIG DSP vendors. This is what the survey indicated although one of the BIG BOYS did do significantly better the the other, as did some of the little vendors - all and all it appears that the little vendors have made significant inroads, just as I see in my 20 group. WE HAVE A CHOICE. 10 years ago there would have been 1/3 the vendors in the survey. If you are a DP or someone in authority at a dealership you need to take an indepth look at the alternative vendors. You have nothing to lose and literally $1,000s to save. I have saved nearly $100,000 in a little over 3 years - I just kick my self for 5 previous years I could have save even more if I had been open minded.

[LBBarrow]

CallBob,

I applaud your 'courage' to try one of the other, smaller DSP's. It's interesting to note that your original post was dated 8/2, and yet there have been few replies to this very important (at least to you, me, and a few others)topic. What is truly amazing is that, even with the turndown in the economy, and efforts to level the playing field by the manufacturers (Star Committee, AMDSG, etc.), a relatively small percentage of dealers have done what you had the foresight to do. One of my customers does 350 New and Used Units per month, yet the 'Big Boys' try to convince their customers and prospective customers that companies like this are not suited to deal with anybody other than the smallest dealerships. Since I also consult a number of dealers with one of the bigger system providers, I have access to proposal and monthly invoicing information from across the country. There is no consistency in the way dealers are charged, and I have never come across 2 that are alike. In addition, dealers still fall prey to hidden costs that are 'overlooked' during negotiations. Typically, dealers, after suffering through the negotiation ordeal, have had their fill of the DSP. They leave it to their comptroller or office manager to review future invoices for accuracy. Unfortunately, most of their people have not been involved beforehand, and do not know if the statements match up with the agreed-upon pricing. In addition, the invoicing itself is very difficult and time consuming to review for accuracy.

[David Cates]

The funny thing about this thread is that it could have been written 10 years ago with only the names changing. Ten years ago we had ATS, Convergent, Coin, Cars Dyatron, and several other smaller vendors that have either been purchased by ADP and R&R or fallen by the wayside. I remember a similar survey in the early nineties, and there were at least as many vendors then as there are now.

One thing to keep in mind usually the larger the automotive dealership the lower the CSI scores (of course there are exceptions). I have always found that the smaller, hometown dealers have the highest customer satisfaction scores. Larger dealers and dealer groups have more volume, which means more problems within all departments. More customers, more customer complaints, more employees to deal with, more products that will go wrong, etc It is the same for computer vendors. That doesnt mean you stop demanding improvement, but it is not always fair to try and compare the smaller vendors vs. the larger based on surveys done with the dealers that made the purchase. Also, most people dont like to admit they made a mistake, so in this case they would be less apt to knock the vendor they chose. I have not seen the survey mentioned, so I am making several assumptions based on past surveys. One is that currently most of the smaller vendor systems would be found in small dealerships (small is relative but I am just trying to make a point). If you survey a smaller dealership, you have a greater chance of getting the person who actually made the decision and they would be more likely to give answers that supported the decision they made. This may not be true when surveying a large dealership. You probably would not get that person and whoever completed the survey would not feel the same propensity to admit a mistake, and would be more likely to openly admit problems and issues with a vendor.

Like it or not, the one thing that will not change is the fact that ADP & R&R are the big boys on the block, and more than likely will stay that way for a while. They will continue to sell aggressively against the smaller companies, just as they should. They will continue to sell against the smaller vendors emphasizing the fact that the smaller vendors cannot support the dealer the way they can. You certainly cant blame them for this sales approach. They are not about to concede any business to anyone, and they will do whatever it takes to make sure they at best maintain current market share levels. They are public companies with shareholders. If I were a shareholder I would expect no less. (Im not)

As far as pricing, I cant speak for ADP, R&R, etc.. but I would guess that a unified, consistent pricing structure would be appealing to them as well. It would certainly make life easier. One of the things that always really bothered me was the fact that in most cases the friendly small town dealer would pay more for a product than the large dealer group located in a larger market. But this problem is more a result of the negotiation process between the dealer and the vendor. Dealers negotiate down; vendors try and maintain proposed levels. Some dealers are smarter about it and negotiate tougher, just like a car buyer. Nothing new here and certainly nothing exclusive to the automotive industry.

LB is right about what happens after the sale with invoices and hidden costs. That is one reason why an experienced consultant can be useful during the purchase process. Someone needs to make sure that ALL of the vendors submit proposals that include estimates of all future costs, etc.. You can bet one sales rep will not proactively disclose all of this if he/she is not assured the other will do the same. These include taxes on software and hardware support fees, any electrical and wiring charges, laser paper and click charges, monthly manufacturer update tapes, and so on The only thing that I can think of that really cant be close to exact would be transactional based charges like laser clicks, forms charges, credit checks, parts locates, and a few others. But they should be able to get pretty close in the proposal based on current volumes.

Please dont think I am taking up for the big boys. I am not. The best thing to do is to bring all of the vendors in on every major purchase decision (i.e. system upgrade or new system purchase). If you dont know who they are, find someone who does. This at least gives them an opportunity to compete. It gives you and your dealership personnel the opportunity to learn more about them. They may surprise you. And knowing that you have been as thorough as possible with the selection process will make you feel better about your decision, whichever direction you go. Fortunately I rarely had to compete with a smaller vendor. They just dont always have enough people on the streets to learn about every deal that is going on. The only way they will become involved is if they are invited to participate.

Ok, Ok, anyone still awake?

As always, just my opinion. Doesnt mean its right.


David Cates
eDealership Solutions www.edealershipsolutions.com

[Matt Parsons]

I am very disturbed by the comment that DSP's supplied lists of their customers that only reflected happy users. Our company worked closely with NADA on this activity, and I can guarantee you that we at EDS supplied our entire client list to NADA. It was then up to NADA and their research company to do a random sampling of our client base.

If you have questions or concerns with the survey or the methodology, I would suggest that you speak with either Wes Lutz (Dealer and Chairman of the NADA IT Committee, or Dick Malaise of NADA).

Please get your facts straight prior to posting information on this forum.

[CharlieP]

Our company, as well, suppied the NADA IT Committee and Friedman-Swift, with our complete customer list. It's probably closer to the truth than John wants to admit.

[ryanjohn]

Shopping for alternatives to the DMS straightjacket you have lived in for so many years?

Save money.

Ryan
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[This message has been edited by mbowers (edited 11-05-2001).]

[This message has been edited by mbowers (edited 11-05-2001).]