Rusted Rotors

[David Henson]

OK, this might seem like a no-brainer, but how are you all addressing used vehicles bought at manufacturer's auction (usually still within warranty time/mileage) that have "severely" rusted rotors.

Now, I'm not just talking about surface rust, I'm talking about deep pits and in some cases actually falling apart. In the south, we don't usually see this on a vehicle under any sort of normal circumstances--of course, we dont' see too much snow under normal circumstances. Primarily, we see it on auction vehicles that originated in snow belt areas of the country.

My take is this would fall under the enviormental/chemical damage, rather than "defect in material" and the used car department should be footing the bill.

I'd thought GM issued a bulletin to that effect some years ago, but can't seem to find it. It seems that GM has always been a little reluctant to provide a definitive policy on brakes. Have any other manufacturers addressed this issue in bulletins, or just unwritten policy?

As always, I appreciate your input.

[tomv]

great question...on one hand the rotors are affected by road salt and environmental conditions. on the other hand the vehicle must be built to withstand these conditions if it is to be sold in areas that experience them. what a dilemma!
up here in the salt belt we treat each case individually. if a vehicle has relatively low mileage we may choose to cover the repairs as we dont expect the condition to show up very early in the life of the vehicle. on higher mileage units the used car department pays. if it is suspected that the vehicle may have been sitting for a long period of time the used catr dept pays. heck...just make the used car dept pay. that way you dont have to worry about questionable warranty claims at all.(haha)
i should mention that we are a saturn facility and saturn is pretty lenient when it comes to brake repairs in our area. use your best judgement and document your reason for covering the repair. i have a feeling youre gonna get a lot of varied answers from different dealers on this one.
just remember...when it comes right down to it, no matter what you decide you are probably gonna be wrong to someone

[David Henson]

Thanks Tom. I appreciate the input from the "salt belt." I know this may not be as clear cut as it would seem on the surface. It really gets tough when a used car manager (who just bought the "creampuff") is involved.

It almost seems that if we're talking about anyone but GM the answer would be certain...

LIke you said though, no matter what the opinion someone (likely an auditor) is going to disagree!

[This message has been edited by David Henson (edited 04-30-2003).]

[warr_wiz]

Here in the Northeast, we see the rotor issue quite a bit. A lot of it is on rear rotors which are @$300 each and there is no listing in aftermarket. The policy I use, right or wrong, if the rotor is so rusted it cannot be resurfaced and kept within specs, it gets replaced. If the vehicle is still in factory warranty, then it is a warranty claim. Otherwise UCD/customer pay. I have also seen rotors that are "delaminating." This looks as the material is flaking off the rotor surface. Same policy follows with a few exceptions given to customer pay. How can I tell a customer with a $30K Envoy with 38K miles his first brake job is $700. UCD gets no goodwill assistance. I believe this is a factory defect issue that GM should be involved in. If rotors do not last in this area due to weather conditions, make a new rotor or put a disclaimer in the owners manual stating the vehicle can't be driven outside unless weather is sunny and dry.

[jargonaut]

The facts need to be examined closely on a used car with rusty rotors. I feel as a warranty administrator they ought to be covered under warranty but when taken in as a used vehicle , even one under factory warranty coverage, one needs to look at the cost of the used vehicle and its value and decide if potentially the factory, upon review, would consider it reconditioning expense built into the car's value versus cost at auction. I always give the UCD consideration for warranty coverage since after all I work for the dealer but have a fiduciary responsibility to the dealer and factory. If it is justifiable and we can document it we claim it since a claim not made and paid cant possibly be kept. If a clear trend of possible abuse of warranty in UCD repairs evolved I would temper my claiming accordingly since why risk the wrath on all my claims coming under scrutiny.

[David Henson]

I'm appreciative of the comments to this topic. In addition to posing the question on this forum, I've also questioned a number of stores, factory reps and even an auditor on their feelings.

To date, I've received varied responses from every one (the auditor hasn't responded as of yet). In contact with a GM rep, the suggestion that this would be covered by warranty was answered with a resounding "NO."

His logic, and I must add that I agree, is that rust forms when the vehicle sits even for a short period of time. Under normal conditions this surface rust would be cleaned off when the vehicle is driven.

Assuming that these vehicles may sit on the auction lot for who knows how long, the rust continues to "grow" and corrode the rotors beyond what would happen under normal circumstances.

Another person called me expressing his opinion and compared it to not properly maintaining batteries on stock units.

In two other calls from "salt belt" (I love that) states, Service Directors told me that their reps (2 different ones, neither knowing the other) have OK'd them to cover these rotors under warranty as GM was "aware of a durability problem" with their rotor material.

I'm not saying I haven't seen what happens and do agree that there may be a problem, but I still can't picture an auditor siding with the dealer on this issue.

[dodgeboy]

Wow, good topic, don't fret about GM, because Chrysler is no better at defining their warranty on this issue. Each case is treated individually. We are smack dab in the middle of the salt belt, and there doesn't seem to be a shortage of roadsalt.
In most states Chrysler has a brake warranty of 12/12kmi. In NY, Chrysler has been forced to warranty up 2years/18kmi. We are selling brakes at 20,000 miles because the rotors are basically junk. You try telling a 300m customer they need brake rotors all the way around the car at 20,000 and see what happens. The manufacturers continue to find the cheapest materials to build these cars and our customers are the ones who feel it. Then the Chrysler customer gets p'ved and buys a GM or a Ford, or another brand and the same thing happens. We are all buying from the same suppliers.

[Michael White]

We are in California and buy a lot of vehicles at the GMAC auctions in Salt Lake. I feel we have solved the factory and customer problem related to the salt concerns. To start, the problem with the salt does not occur unless the vehicle sits a while. For example, a customer turns in a lease return for GMAC. GMAC does a poor job of picking up the vehicles. The vehicle can sit in the dealers lot for months. GM really likes sending the Detroit area vehicles to Salt Lake. By the time we buy the vehicle and get it shipped to California, the vehicle may have sat for 4 months.
When we get these vehicles, the used car department pays to remove the rotors, clean the contact areas at the caliper and knuckle area and lube it with a silicone grease. This has virtually stopped the frozen caliper problems and rotors damaged due to stuck calipers. This is a money maker for sales, and a 15B saver for the used car department
I do believe this problem is a GM problem so many rotors get severe corrosion due to GM not using enough nickel in the rotors. I have found severely corroded rotors really do not have a stopping problem, as long as they are driven regularly. But the cleaning process has done a great job for us. GMPP has paid us for the frozen calipers in this situation, but almsost always there is rotor damage, which they do not cover. Due to GMSPO's repricing, some of these rotors have a list of almost $200. this is hard for a customer to stumach, since they did nothing wrong.
this is my opinion. Hope it helps