WARRANTY TIME VS. CP TIME

[franks283]

I WORK AT A DOMESTIC DEALER(CHRYSLER, JEEP, DODGE) AND, DOESN'T IT SEEM LIKE, WITH WARR. TIME BEING SO LOW, AND TECH'S MAKING UP FOR THAT ON C/P(NORMALLY), THAT WE ARE BASICALLY SHOOTING OURSELVES IN THE FOOT? I HAVE SEEN SOME CRAZY C/P TIMES. FOR EXAMPLE, ONE TECH BILLED 3.0 FOR A BLOWER MOTOR RESISTOR, THAT WOULD PAY .2 UNDER WARR OR MOPAR WARR. HERE, TECHS ARE USED TO GETTING PAID LOUSY FOR WARRANTY...IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THAT WAY. THERE ARE OTHER EXAMPLES I CAN THINK OF...R AND I TRANS PAN; WARR PAYS .5, C/P 1.0, ENGINE REPLACEMENT(WARR. 8 OR 9 HOURS, C/P, WELL 14 OR 15); I JUST WANT TO READ PEOPLES COMMENTS ON THAT.

[Mike Vogel]

Techs will always try to take advantage and those crazy times you talked about is why independent shops/chains got so many of our customers.
Managment needs to be calling the shots in regards to labor time/charges.
Using a pricing guide like Alldata or Chilton will give you industry times for repairs and for the most part are better paying than factory warranty times.
At least with Alldata you can justify to the customer the labor times/charges instead of a technicians pie in the sky labor time.

[This message has been edited by Mike Vogel (edited 05-21-2005).]

[Old Irish]

Adding to this is something I've mentioned before.....

We've all got to make a buck and I don't mind stretching things a bit under some situations, but I insist that my techs and advisors use Chilton for the vast majority of repairs. There has to be some sort of standard.....

Over the years I have seen some outrageous repair invoices from dealers, sometime doubling or even tripling Chilton times. I think it hurts the entire industry and dealerships in particular. We already fight a "high priced" reputation. These rape-and-pillage types are bad news. Sooner or later the customers will wise up. You can shave a sheep a hundred times, but you can only skin him once.

I have to wonder how many managers who allow this are the same ones who are patting themselves on the back for having such high shop "efficiency", 4.0 hours/ro averages and ultra high effective labor rates when,in fact, all they are doing is price gouging.

The sad part is that many (most?) dealer principles are tickled to death to have all the money rolling in, not knowing how is was being "earned" and how his reputation is being damaged.

A;; that being said, Chrysler's warranty time are very low, I think....lower than any other I've known of.

Cheers
Doug

[robc]

Your experience also helps support the theory that retail customers are actually paying part fo the cost of the warranty repair. If the warranty reimburement were fair, then there wouldn't be as great a need to load-up on CP work. In other owrds, since dealerships are forced to do low paying warranty work, they are at a competitive disadvantage to the aftermarket that doesn't have the same burden. That is why states past retail reimbursement legislation in several states. If the dealers would put more of a unified effort forward the equasion would become more closer to reality.

Barring that pie in the sky dream, more stores I talk to are going to pricing a factor off of warranty time. Like factory flat rate plus 50%, 75% or 100%. That at least puts a ceiling on the maximum time differential from warranty time.

That being said, I also think some of the problem is as previously stated - managers get caught up in believing that they can get 3-4 hours per RO and that it won't come back to bite them (which generally just doesn't happen).

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** Rob, Editor Dealersedge/WD&S **
Help is only a message post away!
robc@dealersedge.com

[3760Guru]

Similarly to what others have said, the shop I used to work for had a service price guide (R&R). It allowed me to use warranty or motor time with a markup. Not only did it lock out the ability to fudge the numbers, but it kept me in control of the pricing/time being quoted by my advisors.

Just my $.02

[PROUSER]

LET US ALL REMEMBER THAT THE TIMES PUBLISHED FOR WARRANTY WORK WERE DONE BY EXPERIENCED ENGINEERS OR TECHNICIANS WITH EVERY TOOL AND PIECE OF EQUIPMENT AT HAND.

AS A FORMER TECHNICIAN WORKING AT THREE DEALERSHIPS OVER A SPAN OF TWENTY YEARS, I NEVER HAD THE LUXURY OF HAVING SPECIAL TOOLS WELL ORGANIZED BY THE DEALERSHIP. THERE WERE MANY TIMES I SPENT AN HOUR OR MORE LOOKING FOR A TOOL. I WAS FREQUENTLY REQUIRED TO WORK ON ENGINES, TRANSMISSIONS AND OTHER COMPLICATED COMPONENTS FOR WHICH I HAD NO TRAINING OR EXPERIENCE.

COULD YOU IMAGINE TELLING THE CUSTOMER THAT THE PERSON WORKING ON HIS BRAND NEW $20-50K CAR HAS NEVER RECEIVED THE PROPER TRAINING?
(SO PLEASE BE PATIENT WHILE HE SPENDS TIME THE MANUFACTURER WILL NEVER PAY HIM FOR IN DIAGNOSING AND REPAIRING -HE IS LEARNING ON YOUR BRAND NEW VEHICLE)

DON'T GET ME WRONG I AM NOT FOR GOUGING THE CUSTOMER, BUT THE TIMES PUBLISHED FOR WARRANTY WORK ARE FAR FROM FAIR, AND CHILTONS DOES NOT COVER EVERY POSSIBILITY FOR EVERY MODEL, OR INCLUDE TIME FOR RUSTED OR STRIPPED FASTENERS OR CLEANING ALL THE MUD OFF THAT 4X4'S UNDERSIDE AND OTHER POSSIBILITIES THAT COULD EAT UP ADDITIOINAL TIME, SO THE TECHNICIAN IS NOT ALWAYS TRYING TO ABUSE THE CUSTOMER. WE DO NOT WANT TO TREAT THE CUSTOMER ANY DIFFERENTLY THAN WE WOULD BE TREATED IF WE WERE IN THEIR PLACE !

[THE FIXED GUY]

Would it be so wrong for the factory to just pay for the time spent on the repairs. I know this is not going to happen but, if you think about it our guys are like doctors except they have a lot more types to work on not just a m-f.I have to ask my self sometimes with the ever changing technology why we work with the flat rate system
just mouthing off
THE FIXED GUY

[robc]

Several great ideas -

Dr. to Tech comparison ... have you seen what HMOs pay doctors anymore? I'd rather have warranty time.

Extra time for age - like rusted bolts, cleaning etc. is in the Chilton manual. That is supposedly why they pay more than the factory time. Along with the special tool/training/ability that were noted.
Big differences I know for techs that are accustomed to a repair can rip through compared to a general skilled tech that only does it once in a while. I came from an independent shop background. I remember when wed get a big engine rebuild it would take the tech like 2+ days (probably paid 17 hours), but then I went to dealership and watched a tech pull, tear-down and reassemble an engine in a day (might have paid 8 hours warranty time). I was amazed and when I was talking to the tech about it he simply said, Rob, thats the eighth one Ive done this month how many times did other tech do this job.

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** Rob, Editor Dealersedge/WD&S **
Help is only a message post away!
robc@dealersedge.com

[franks283]

STILL ON THIS SAME TOPIC, IT SEEMS THE FACTORY DOESN'T WANT TO PAY FOR DIAGNOSTIC TIME...IF YOU ARE SIMPLY DIAGNOSING THE VEHICLE, SAY FOR A NOISE IN THE FRONT END, AND YOU GO, TEST DRIVE A FEW MILES, RACK A CAR AND LOOK AT THE SUSPENSION FOR ANYTHING LOOSE THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO BILL THE FACTORY...THEY WANT YOU TO INTERNAL WARRANTY POLICY THAT. IN MY OPINION, AND ONLY MY OPINION, CHRYSLER HAS MADE THE DIAGNOSTIC PROCEDURES VERY MUDDLED(HARD TO UNDERSTAND), THUS MAKING IT EASIER FOR DIAG.(8541) TO BE CHARGED BACK. USED TO BE, CHRYSLER USED TO HAVE A PUBLISHED TIME FOR DIAGNOSIS, OF SAY, IDLE AIR MOTORS, O2 SENSORS, PCM'S; BUT THAT WAS DONE AWAY WITH. WITH ALL THIS SAID, I MUST SAY, I AM NOT A TECHNICIAN...I AM JUST CALLING IT LIKE I SEE IT.

[Number 65]

We generally charge 1.5x the warranty time, or the Chilton/Motor time.

Ripping off or gouging the customer is not tolerated here.