ADP and other DMS

[scottd]

We are currently involved in an install with ADP. We spent a lot of time investigating systems and ended up with ADP. We were very thorough (sp?) and documented everything. Yet we still were lead to believe that things were part of the core product only later to find out that they were options we had not paid for or negotiated. We are currently very disgusted with the transition that ADP has lead. It has been one mistake after another starting with the data conversion and still no financial statement today. We feel our old system (CARS) was more user friendly (in many ways) and certainly less work and a lot cheaper! We are finding that things we did or want to do (that were NO PROBLEM) during the demo are impossible. We have found that if you keep pushing they eventually figure out a way to do it.

For example on our repair orders they want to combine deductibles and haz waste. We said no way they said that's all that can be done. We said Can't be, they said oh yes we called everyone... We finally showed thm a RO from another ADP dealer that had them seperated out...

Does anyone else have similar experience or are we the only ones?

Is anyone interested in a forum to discuss this or other DMS issues?

Scott

[sallen1]

Scott (I like your name...)

Here's an example of where lawyers are actually useful in operating your dealership. Had you (or maybe you do already) have everything that ADP promised IN WRITING with an agreed-to clause for performance (i.e. how much money will ADP give you if you can't get your financial statement printed, etc.) you would have an avenue to pursue. During our negotiations ADP promised us that data converstion would not be a problem (actually written on the contract!) and when the stuff did'nt come over we had 5 ADP data-entry clerks hand punch one year of parts sales history. ADP didn't want to do this saying that we could get by without the information but I insisted they perform or get out.

Remember, most of the verbal promises given during the sales process are either fluff or outright misrepresentations. ADP is like other sales organizations: Sometimes they 'oversell'.

My suggestion to everyone is to get your vision of your new system written and agreed to by both parties PRIOR TO SIGNING ANY CONTRACTS. This includes time-to-install, data conversion, features, options, etc. It must be specific and you must be ready to prosecute the agreement when something goes wrong.

Hopefully you have some remedies if ADP fails you.

scott

[This message has been edited by sallen1 (edited 10-12-1999).]

[scottd]

I agree with you Scott. We thought we had written everything down. We did miss the penalty clause though. But where we got hurt was in not understanding the application completely. For example they showed us the new elite plus product. They never told us this was an option they said this is how you do it from a PC. It wasn't like a promise it was a demonstration of what we thought we were buying. Turns out they had us drive a Camry and sold us the used Tercel. When we took delivery we said HEY that's not the Camry! you get it. The other feature was sessions. We had multi sessions standard as part of our old application so we didn't think to question them on this. They told us each PC does 6 and the VTs do 3. What they left out is that they are an option. We spoke about them several times during the demo and have clear recollection as to ADP responses.

The good news is they have said they intend to make good but we don't have our stuff yet.

I think it's safe to say with ADP and R&R; Caviat Emptor!

Scott

ps does anyone have a price on multi sessions? per session?

[scottd]

Well I guess theres no real interest in this topic...

[dansmith]

I have been involved with 3 ADP computer purchases and installs, along with a number of upgrades over the past 11 years. The following advice is not meant to infer that these things have ever happened. With that disclaimer, here is my best advice:
1) Get *everything* in writing as addendums to the contract - no matter how seemingly insignificant. If the salesperson agreed to something or inferred that something was going to happen make sure they document it. Addendums to the standard contract can be very specific and detail *exactly* what was agreed upon. Some items that are very important are the number of F&I forms to be programmed, the timing and amount of in-house training and installation work to be provided, the availability (and cost) of additional assistance later on down the road, and the specifics of what certain program modules can or cannot do.
2) Make sure that the written contract mirrors the intent and the agreed upon terms of the negotiations. Always keep an eye out for for items that were not discussed or disclosed. Don't be pressured into signing a contract that might better represent the agreed upon terms if re-written (or re-re-re-written).
3) Be *very* cautious about disk space, memory and port configurations. The best time to get extra disk space or ports is at the time of the major purchase - especially disk space. There always seems to be the need for another terminal or printer somewhere - and all of these require another port. When a vendor comes back to sell you additional software programs or upgrades, these may very well require additional disk space. You do not want to find yourself out of a critical resource and having only one place to purchase it.
Dan Smith

[sallen1]

On top of what Dan stated, you should also do this:

For what ever price you pay for a feature, such as 1GB disk space, MB of system memory, ports, etc., get an agreement (in writing) that guarantees that price for a year or so. This protects you against inadequate configuration: we found we could use 4 add'l ports and the 'retail' price would have made them price-prohibitive.

scott

[scottd]

I agree with waht has been said in addition what we have learned is that you MUST document specific timelines that software/functionality will be delivered. Such as a finncial will be delivered by 1/1/2000 or the first accurate doc sheet will be produced by... You get the idea. That is one stone we left unturned and are very dissappointed we did. Also stipulating that the server won't be brought down during the business day for their convenience would be something else I would insist on.

Scott

[Richard]

We recently completed looking at all 3 major Vendors, R&R, ADP, and EDS. Every single one fo these guys oversell their systems, and leave out important things. During one meeting, after we got down to 2 vendors, we found that both had left things out of their bids. No matter how much research, how many lawyers, ect are involved, you are still going to have problems because that is the nature of this particular beast. I have been involved in 3 conversations since I got into the Parts Business 11 years ago. Lucky, after all was said and done, we didn't change vendors this time, we just got a larger mainframe and some other enhancements to the current product. And to end this, one of th emost important things most peopl forget is training....both on & offsite, and refreshers after 12-24 monthes offsight.

[David Cates]

Just a quick note on my background - I was with ADP 11 years, 3 as a software installer (AE), 2 as a Client Operations Analyst (COA), and 6 years as a successful sales rep. Two years ago I decided to leave ADP and start my own consulting business, so I have seen things from the dealer's point of view as well. I have also worked with R&R dealers and UCS dealers, so although I speak mostly from ADP experiences, I believe my perspective is applicable to all DMS vendors in the automotive industry. I am going to give my thoughts on some of the causes of the unpleasant relationship that exists between many dealers and their DMS provider. Remember, these are just my opinions. I am in no way implying that there are not many satisfied dealers who have a good relationship with their vendor there are. But there is an obvious general negative feeling in the industry with regards to dealers and their vendor.

Putting together a new system, or an upgrade, is not an easy thing to do these days. Beyond the standard considerations of ports, disk space, and hardware and software, there is a multitude of issues that have to be considered. Networking, manufacturer initiatives, third party applications, new technology, and others all have to be considered. Trust me, it can get awful confusing for the sales rep as well, especially in the larger organizations with many users and multiple franchises.

There is also a tremendous competition between ADP & R&R. This helps the dealer when it comes to price, but is harmful when it comes to other considerations. The sales reps, just like many dealer salespeople, are constantly under pressure to perform and win every deal. The average deal takes approximately six months. You can put a lot into it, and to lose it can be a large strain both financially and mentally. I think this pressure is what makes salespeople tend to sometimes say and promise things that they may or may not be able to follow up on. Im not saying its right, I just think it is one of the causes of the problems.

All of the points about getting addendums, etc. are valid. Get it in writing! Of course, sometimes that should work both ways. I have had deals where things were said by the dealership that I wish had been written down (of course well send them to class, or sure, we can be down for one day, etc) There is a lot said during the various stages, and sometimes people truly forget. It might even be a good idea to leave the specific considerations out of the picture until you have decided who you are going with (in the case of switching vendors, of course most upgrades are competitive these days as well). You can still figure out a way to get a price comparison, and this would allow the vendor to configure the system (ports, terminals, etc..) without having to worry if the competition is putting a terminal there, or selling this software, etc... It is also true in most cases things are less expensive up front, during a system change or an upgrade. That is when the greatest discounts are made, especially in a highly competitive deal. Price protection is also important, and you should try to get some type of guarantee for as long as you can (usually 36 months is about the best). It is also important to get additional ports and the right amount of disk space and memory to meet your dealerships long-term needs.

Richard was right when he mentioned the importance of training. This is a major issue and a major cause of some of the problems. Although I understand why some dealers need on-site training, I think it has caused a lot of problems over the last few years. The systems are becoming more complicated, and the training levels have decreased. It is hard to adequately train dealership personnel at the dealership. There are too many disruptions and distractions. The result of this is inadequately trained personnel. My experience is the way you start out on a system is usually the way you end up for the next several years. I have always been amazed that clients would spend $150,000+ on a system but not want to make the investment in training. I think this is a major reason why so many dealerships underutilize their system. I also think the vendors should do a better job of making sure their clients understand the product (UCS does the best job of this). In the long run, it would be to their benefit if they did this. Better-trained dealership personnel would understand the product, use more of its functionality, probably like the system better, and thus be a better reference for their product. It would also mean they could decrease some of their internal support staff, as a lot of the issues they deal with would be resolved by dealership personnel. I would like to see more pro-active training and follow-up from the vendors, but I dont think this is going to happen.

I think the primary issue involves ownership of the system. Microsoft may have provided you with the software you run on your PC, but they never came out and set up your spreadsheets for you. I know were not on the same purchase level from a price standpoint, but I think the idea holds true. Your DMS is a tremendous investment, and plays a significant role in the success of your dealership (and is only going to be more important in the future). The dealership ultimately has to be responsible for making the system work, for understanding it, and for making sure the capabilities are utilized to the fullest extent possible. The vendors sure arent going to do it. During the purchase of a new system or an upgrade, if youre not sure of exactly what is going on, get some help. Dont make an uninformed, pressurized decision you will regret later. Also, put someone from the dealership in charge if the process. If you dont have a systems administrator, designate one, and train them. It should be up to this person to make sure there is enough disk space, memory, ports, etc Dont leave it up to the vendor to do this. Understand every product, why it is important or not, and if it is truly something your personnel will use. And dont let yourself be undersold either. This can be just as costly to your dealership. Some vendors will undersell just to keep the price down and get the deal, and then will keep coming back to sell you the products you should have had in the first place. Make the vendors do the right thing! After the purchase decision is made, have this person play the lead role in the implementation process, and have them trained as much as possible on all applications and hardware. This can save time and money down the line when new personnel are hired and training is required. It gives you a person in the dealership that understands how the system and the vendor work. This person can also be responsible for reviewing the monthly computer bill. Honestly, I can walk into just about any dealership these days and knock a few hundred dollars a month off of their bill. If youre not already doing so, take a look at the bill every month to ensure its accuracy and see what youre actually paying for. I know not all dealerships can afford to have a person solely designated to system administration, but at least find the one person in the dealership that could do this along with his/her other duties. The less you have to rely on the vendor, the better off you are!

There are many sales reps out there (from all of the vendors) who do the right thing, and try hard to help and support their clients any way they can. I was fortunate to understand the product I sold, and to have the hands-on experience to personally work with the clients I sold and help them understand the system and its vast capabilities. These salespeople see good and bad dealerships everyday, and can help your dealership in some way or another. Take advantage of them when you can. For what its worth, I always wanted to help everyone, but I am only human, and always preferred to go to the dealership where I was not constantly bitched at, but instead welcomed.

Lastly, sites and forums like this go a long way in helping dealers and personnel gain a better understanding of these issues. Hopefully, ADP, R&R, and the others also take a look at them to get the real pulse of the industry. They could see first-hand that a lot of clients are concerned with GM DCS issues, e-commerce, Internet capabilities, etc.. Sometimes I think they tend to look too much at the large picture, and forget that the large picture is actually made up of many smaller pieces you guys. I wish I had had this site when I was selling with ADP. No doubt it would have made me a better salesperson.

I am always available if anyone has any questions about ADP or other DMS questions.


David Cates

[lovemotors]

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[This message has been edited by mbowers (edited 02-09-2000).]