ADP and other DMS

[bjrainey]

I have inquired to every DMS provider out there and I have concluded they are all the same. ADP has an edge on the competition but they lack ethical behavior.

They can be beat at their own game though.

It is very time consuming, and requires more knowledge about what they are proposing or selling you than what they know.

[This message has been edited by mbowers (edited 02-09-2000).]

[Chuck Hartle]

I would like to add an 'addendum' to this conversation. In the past several months I have worked with dealers going through upgrades or DMS conversions.

I have truly come to one conclusion that I would like to share. Before switching your 'DMS' provider, let your employees help make the decision. Of the six DMS conversions we have been associated with, each one has turned out to be a real nightmare and cost the dealership net profit is the process.

The savings the dealer experienced in switching vendors was totally superceded by the learning curve associated with all the employees having to learn a new program language. Going from ADP to Reynolds and Reynolds (or visa-versa) creates the real strain on the dealership employees who use it daily. Training on both sides of the coin was not even close to adequate.

In closing, don't let ego and good salesmanship get in the way of progess and process within your dealership. Remember, if you have been with a computer vendor for 5-10 years you have not only invested in the computer system but in your employees ability to understand it over that time period as well. And the later is more valuable than any price you might have paid.

Chuck Hartle'

[Hank D]

I can't seem to log in here without adding my 2 cents worth.
1) Come on guys - what business are you in? I guess your salespeople never overpromise. The only time salespeople lie is when they open their mouths.

2)I have had simular experience and worse with Another Darned Problem. UCS is a managers/ computer geeks dream and the employee's nightmare. If you have a year to train your employee and they never leave, you're ok. I am currently on ADP, but would take a cut in pay if the dealer would switch to R&R. I spent 4 years on ERA/R&R and loved it. Switched the last dealer I was with to R&R and 2 years later they still love it. I have worked 4+ years on each of the three systems above, and know the ups and downs of all of them. Email me with any questions you may have. I dont know it all, but may be of some assistance or be able to recommend someone to you.

[David Cates]

I agree, sometimes it is hard to resist the temptation of putting your two cents in.

One thing to keep in mind - everyone is a salesperson (or should be), regardless of what department you represent in a dealership. Parts counter personnel sell parts, service personnel sell service, body shop personnel sell repair services, and sales personnel sell vehicles. All sell the dealership, either in a good way or a bad way.

If a parts counter person tells a customer that a part will arrive in two days, and it is backordered, is that a lie? If a service advisor tells a customer their vehicle will be ready by noon and it is not, is that a lie? My point is, all salespeople do not lie, sometimes circumstances / stereotypes can cause that perception.

The same is true with dealership computing systems and system providers - all have areas where they are strong, and all have areas where they are weak. In twelve years I have yet to meet any one person, let alone an entire dealership, that "loved" every aspect of the system they were on. At least not enough to take a cut in pay. Obviously they exist somewhere, I just haven't met them yet

I think Chuck makes a good point - switching systems does not necessarily solve any problems that are being attributed to the current system. The dealership will not sell one more vehicle, one more part, or one more hour of service as a result of switching computer systems, unless they learn to utilize the strengths and not worry about the weaknesses of the new system better than they did the old. The only way to do this is through dealership investment in training and individual initiative, both initially and periodically.

Obviously, technology is changing the way dealerships do business. Yes, you still have to sell your products and services through relationships and customer services and it still comes down to people, but the computer and the Internet are changing the way you interact with customers, and are facilitating the entire process of doing business. Regardless of what system you are on, I believe the best thing you can do is maximize your utilization of the strengths of the system (without sacrificing face to face customer interaction), and minimize the effects of the perceived weaknesses.

Just my two cents.

David

[PRFTEX]

I'm glad to know that the suffering is widespread. After two YEARS of intensively researching and evaluating systems, we went with an EDS system (DMS@net or Advanta) and have really been pleasantly surprised by the functionality and flexibility of the system not to mention the fact that it's $2000 cheaper than the old ADP Max 8800 that took ten minutes to do a long division problem.
What I think a lot of dealers miss in evaluating systems is the relationship between ease of use and the need for training. With our old ADP system, if a guy wen't on vacation for 2 weeks, he'd have to darn near re-learn the system because of the lack of "command consistency". (Do I hit shift-6, type a period, or hit escape to get out of this !@#$ screen?) What's great about PCs is the Graphical User Interface (aka GUI) in that when you learn one skill or method it generally applicable across all applications. You therefore train once and pretty much forget it. Also, most every kid coming out of high school and college already has these skills! Gone (hopefully) are the days when you are forced to hire a controller, for example, based on their knowledge of a particular computer system. (Don't laugh- we did it). I frankly didn't expect to end up with an EDS system, and we had our share of installation problems BUT they DID DO everything they said they would do, and did NOT deceive us as to the capabilities of the system, as ADP has historically done to us (and to the rest of the world too, apparently).
Part 2 of my harangue is this: what journalist would believe that a group of CAR DEALERS has essentially been laid away with what amounts to widespread fraud and deceptive trade practice by an industry vendor(s)? I am having a helluva time with ADP right now regarding some blatant misrepresentations about the term of our old lease and from what I'm reading here, I'm beginning to wonder if I'm the only one. Has anybody heard of any pending legal action on this subject? Could you treat your customers this way and expect NOT to be sued in less than a week?!

[This message has been edited by PRFTEX (edited 03-27-2000).]

[bclark]

I to have gone through a conversion in the last year. This was forced by R&R buying our previous DSP (COIN) and then discontinueing support. The conversion process went without too many problems. The training was very basic and then they were gone.

I have attended two advanced seminars conducted by people who seemed very knowlegeable only to get back and find some of the information was incorrect.

David cates is correct that Microsoft sells an operating system but dosen't setup the spreadsheet. The difference is that as stated in another reply, almost any highschool kid can setup a windows program.

I don't have four or five years to learn UNIX programing to setup the R&R ERA to do things the way I want.

I have also been told by support that things could not be done a certain way only to find other dealers doing it the way I wanted. Unless you can get to a top level programer at support, you will get very little real help on makeing changes.

I'm sure we can all go on and on about systems and problems and will accomplish nothing except venting our frustrations.

I would bee very interested in a discussion groupe on the ERA system.

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[sallen1]

Hey, thought I'd chime in

Here's the things that have turned my loyalty from ADP. There is a positive message here so read on...

We've been using an ADP 8800 since they were first introduced. I took extensive ADP training in PICK and UNIX and can manipulate the machine as necc. Used to know the key to superuser password but ADP got wise. I really liked the system at the time (1993) and it's survived eight years.

The 8800 runs both my stores over a leased 56K line. A couple of years ago, we ungraded our phones to use a T1 voice/data circuit between locations for better voice communication and thought we'd put the data thru it too. ADP came out and said "you have to use our $10,000 DSU/CSU switch and will need our $5,000 software too." Needless to say, the 56K line works pretty good at $90 per month...

Then, we were insulted last November with the requirement to get with the GM-Access setup, that cost about $7,000 and so far it's useless.

We've stuck with the 8800 hoping for a better solution from ADP but what I've seen, it's more of the same on a DEC system and it costs more.

Lately, another insult. ADP won't put forth their own parts catalog so the Bell-Howell, EDS, etc. vendors are hanging around. The B&H was really cool but because of their agreement with ADP, the system will only network with a 9200 system and we'd have to buy 4 ports for the 8800 to make it work. Ouch...

Here's the good news and I'll refer to the success some are having with EDS. The EDS parts system, while not as rhobust as B&H will network into the 8800 without too much trouble. We can provide our own hardware and have as many catalog systems we want.

EDS now has my attention for the DMS solution and its time to get something new.

Keep smiling!

scott

ps According to the B&H rep, ADP will install firewall type control to prevent 'unpaid' network access to the 8800 (probably the 9200 too).

oh, I did contemplate R&R but they tried the bait and switch technique. They must have forgotten they were selling to a car dealer...

[franksmith]

I have been reading all the opinions regarding DSP's and had to chime in with my two cents worth. It seems that we will negotiate for days to save a few dollars upfront but will not put the appropriate money into the training part of the installation. I have used most, and have settled or "roosted" on R&R for the long run. I believe that all systems can do the basic functions but if your employee's do not know how to use them to the fullest, what difference will it make which one you settle on. Put the time, money and "push" into your department heads to get their people trained on the system. Each manager should be a "wizard" on the system i.e. REPORT GENERATOR for R&R. The digital dealership will thrive on the information that can be harvested from this fertile ground.
I have found that by being a long time customer of my DSP (R&R) I get many perks that a new customer may not. Develop personal relationships with the technical people at your DSP. We have made a list of those that can help and those that can't. We have learned through the years the people that can answer the financial questions, and the ones that can help your parts and service departments. Simply put, your system will give you back what you put in it but thats all!!

[Kevin Kavanagh]

I haven't posted in a while and thought I'd add my two cents worth also.

The DMS vendors can and often are very frustrating to work with. And while I agree any kid coming out of college knows how to run a Windows PC, how many are coming to work at your dealerships.

Chuck, David and many of the folks are correct on a number of issues. These are the one's I think most important:

Buying a system - Make sure your people are involved! Let the user that will live with the solution be part of choosing the solution!

Get Help! - If you're not comfortable buying a system get one of the many consultants out there to assist you. A comment, do not choose a consultant because they will get you the best price! Over 5 years almost any dealer will spend more than $300K on a system and if you don't buy the right hardware and software you may save money on the wrong items.

PROCESS, PROCESS, PROCESS! ANY computer is only a tool. Look at how you do business and what your current processes are. Changing your computer will not improve a bad process. Neither will automating a bad manual process. Look for someone that can help you evaluate where you are today and offer solutions on how to get the results you want. That solution will include process first and tools (computers & SW) second.

Training You absolutely have to make an ongoing commitment to training. I recommend at least 15 20 % of your annual computer monthly expense AT MINIMUM. With personnel and ongoing software changes you need to invest that money. Whether with the vendor, a consultant, the local computer store for Windows or MS Office training or training on the proper use of the Internet you need to make this commitment.

Finally if you get in trouble contractually with a vendor get help. Some of the consultants out there have experience in handling and settling cases with the vendors. Email me if interested in who.

Thanks and see you at AROW IV

Kevin


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[mbowers]

We have our own DMS expert on the board. Matt Parsons from EDS is acting as a guest moderator. He'll happy to take you on. (Well maybe not happy but he'll do it anyway.)

Why not pose some of these comments to him?