ADP--NOT AGAIN !!!

[jdaniel]

Mark- I'll agree that ADPs service drive apps are more user friendly, but not parts. In our studies we found that although Reynolds parts system has some significant weaknesses it is dramatically better than what ADP has to offer. Some of the "little guys" really have both of them beat, but the makes we have severely limited our choices to the R&R and ADP.

But you did hit on one real truth, if you buy something and don't use it you are throwing away money.

[purelink]

In reference to ADP and the "noose around the neck". I must be responsable here, I represent a dsm product, but I am not soliciting it specifically. In fact, I am here to say that there are many alternatives to the ADP's and the R&R's. The list of dsm products are growing daily. Some of them out there are very good and saves the dealer thousands of dollars a month. I know for fact that I have been able to save dealers 3-6 thousand dollars a month. Now if you look at the number of say 5 thousand a month savings. THe key here is to look at the other side of the balance sheet. As reported by DealersEdge a few months ago. the average dealer net profit is up from 1.6% to 1.9%. So to generate 5 thousand dollars a month to pay for dsm's you need to generate over $250,000 a month in sales to pay for that. Think about it, that's over 3 million a year in sales. Doesn't spending a bit of time and money on training and maybe a very small trade-off in capabilities( usually the new dsm products actually give you better performance, and features then the "big two")for this kind of savings?? You must always remember, everything you do is "for" the bottom line.

I encourage the users of ADP and R&R to look at the alternatives and what the ROI is for switching. It may just blow your mind!

Michael Hammer

[johnny o]

Michael:

Interesting how mentioning the original ADP question allows one to open the door to automatically include R&R and than proceed to the negatives.
Yet as you mention you are not promoting any specific vender, though you tuck in that you sell a separate product. MMMm .. Seems a conflict of interest to some degree.

Thoughts ...

At times a shovel is all that is required to dig a hole; yet, some projects would and could require a backhoe. The same dollars will not be spent for the item. Yet both fill a market niche. However, in either case if the individual who digs the hole digs it in the wrong place or the knowledge to run the tool is not present; well, disaster is likely. Does not matter if the name is John Deer or Sears on the tool. It is the know how and smarts to work well with what you have that is key to success. I say this as how can one progress to more complex or other methods when the basics and concepts are not used or understood. Mike I found out quickly in consulting that the weakness in service or parts was not usually in the software packages rather that the individuals often did not have the basics of the job itself under their belt. Simply replacing the software would do little to assist these dealerships. Rather, I found in many cases that first training the parts manager (and staff) inventory basics and concepts was required. The next step was then showing how to integrate the basics into the in house DMS.


Caution in moving to a new software vendor (simply because it is hoped that by doing so will remove problems) is urged..... why ?
Example: I once had a French teacher who wrote on the black board an English sentence and asked where is the NOUN, and which is the ADVERB. Every one was quiet. He then asked if we could not identify these in English our spoken and written language, (not knowing the basics) How did we ever feel we could understand and write other languages? First, have the basic syntax of one language understood and than progress will be rapid in others. Similarly, I am very keen that a dealership first assess the level of know how in house. Computer know how; and job know how (the basics). First when possible, put training in place to bring these aspects up to snuff. This then (and only then) opens the door to further train and improve using the in house system. Otherwise, you will have people using a computer by ROTE without the smarts to use it as a profit tool.


Summary : Make a dealership more profitable by improving the people first and then give them the proper tools to do the job (not necessarily less expensive). If the DMS software is superior and provides the profitability and satisfaction required than price is not really an issue. A DMS provider can charge any fees they demand only as long as the customer base perceives that it is money well spent. People and business will always pay for service and pay very well, if they feel the service they receive is consitantly excellent.

Mike : Rather than sell a cheaper shovel... show how and why it may not be necessary to dig in the first place.

[This message has been edited by johnny o (edited 01-07-2004).]

[SWindham]

I could weigh in on this but I just wanted to point out that there is only one vendor to my knowledge (starts with U) that has an auto renewel. ADP,RR and the like go to month to month. RR doesn't even take back the discounts like they use to.

Yes, there are some excellent alternatives out there. Most of the smaller cheaper vendors make you give up functionality. There are a couple that have great solutions for less money.

[purelink]

Johnny O,

Your point is well taken!

The ADP platform is not the most effiecent to work with. I have many users that have used ADP and R&R for many years. When they used "the alternative platform" they were amazed at how easy it was to use. These platforms use true windows environments that allow a user to operate it by both the mouse and/or the keyboard. Also, pc based systems (as such that we are discussing) operate much faster and reduce dramatically the printing needed when running a report. Most reports are available on the screen and the user finds the info they need and then moves on, not waiting for printer availability or for an overnight report (batch ) to run.

And then there is the huge financial advantage of these types of systems. Example; hardware, all the hardware is available off the shelf from just about any where , staples, office max, comp use etc. Try to buy a hard drive for an ADP/IBM system. THey will tell you it's $10,000 and only from them. Reality is with a bit of hunting you can get the same drive installed for under a grand. But then ADP won't support it, hmmm.



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[johnny o]

You mention that my point is well taken

Yet in the next breath you write down the same basic comments and fall into the same rhetoric as your last write up. It is evident that you missed the point completely.

Perhaps re-reading the posting will assist in crystallizing the thought as intended.

An old expression also comes to mind "the pot should never tell the kettle it is black".

John

[This message has been edited by johnny o (edited 01-15-2004).]

[jdaniel]

I have to reply to Michael (and anyone else who thinks Microsoft has the answer)-
When was the last time you heard of a substantial Unix-derived OS stability issue? How about security problems? Planned obsolescence/support abandonment? OK, now answer the same questions for Windows...
If you actually license your Windows servers with enough CALs to cover yourself you will have spent a fortune.
As far as printing, the unix-based systems can and do offer the same flexibility (if the vendors choose to).
PC based systems faster? Try to run you Windows apps on hardware comparable to the antiques our DMS providers usually sell us- then add the multi-client load.
The problem isn't the choice of hardware and software platforms, it is the mentality of the DMS company. The small companies tend to be "light on their feet" and therefore respond to customer demand more rapidly. But without the developmental manpower available the small companies ignore huge sections of the market based on vehicle manufacturers. If you want to see the "alternatives" evaporate tell them that you need to communicate with Volvo, VW and Chrysler. Every year at NADA I try to see what's out there, most of the Windows-based DMS guys won't even talk to me when I list our franchises.
Not that ADP and Reynolds don't have a long way to go, but don't fall for the Windows hype- it is an expense and security nightmare.

Jack

[cobra30689]

jdaniel...it will be interesting to see what happens to the pricing for ADP and R&R if SCO wins its court battle over its stake in the Linux kernel. I know ADP runs Red Hat 9.0, not sure about R&R. I am on UCS presently(gasp)...seriously looking at a Windows/SQL-based solution that is very powerful, and reasonably priced.

[jdaniel]

Our Reynolds server runs Red Hat 7.1-
The easy answer is to port servers over to a "beastie"- FreeBSD if user-friendliness (relatively speaking) is needed, OpenBSD is security is a primary concern. All of the legal battles over BSD licensing were fought and won years ago.

As far as SCO's chances- the anti-SCO war chest is filling quickly and SCO is past a "put up or shutup" deadline for disclosing code. I expect SCO to cause some more problems, but with the entire open-source community as well as IBM, Oracle, Novell, Intel, etc. lining up to indemnify customers and fight SCO in court I see lawyers to getting rich and not much else happening.

Jack

[Fixedopsmgr]

As a current user of ADP for the last 5 years and prior to that UCS I would have to say that ADP is the most antiquated system I have worked with in a long time. I am now at a VW dealer and a lot of the jobs do not work. Campaigns and parts kits are some examples. In UCS you could use one op-code and price it by the VIN. ADP requires a multitude of op codes to do the same thing. When they are contacted the only answer you get is that that's the way it is. I really don't know why they don't upgrade their programs. It's very frustrating after coming from a system that in my opinion could do anything.